Topic. I can’t find up to date Frame Data for character normals anywhere. Help? Thanks in advance.
It’s still a work in progress, but here’s what I have so far.
Keep in mind the startup frames are written like they would be for SF. Which means: First active frame = last startup frame.
Great job. Keep up the good work!
I wish we had our own strategy wiki where we could display this data for all the KI games like the Dustloop wiki.
Well we are on the SRK wiki: http://wiki.shoryuken.com/Killer_Instinct_(2013)
But no one has touched it since S1.
I believe shago’s shadow fireball is 6 frames total. I’ll have to double check on that.
What?
Meant the startup of shago’s fireballs.
I’m pretty sure they have the same Startup frames as Jago’s.
I can’t remember, but your frame data (and the game’s) lists it as 1,9.
Currently, all Shadow Moves have the in game data as far as startup. At the moment, I don’t have a way to count startup on those because of the pause.
The way I determine the frames other then the frame pause in replay is test move on moves that are corresponding to the startup of the move.
So for example, Shago’s shaodw fireball is listed as 1,9 which means it’s a 10f startup and is unable to punish jago’s heavy windkick on block. That’s at a glance, HOWEVER if one were to actually do it you will find that you can actually punish it. Therefore it is at least 1,6 startup. Or something like that.
Shouldn’t testing it against a long startup move also work? For instance, if I make Jago use his Back+HP (the Overhead), it will have 19 frames of startup. If I input the shadow move when I know the Jago is going to start it (by timing it with a jump), then I should be able to see when his model stops moving, and when it starts moving again.
Just a theory, but I wanted to sort out non-Shadow Moves, since I already have the process for those down.
Edit: Also, I didn’t read the “shadow” bit in your initial post. So I assumed you meant regular fireballs.
Well yes you could do it that way but you won’t have a precise number. Another example,
ARIA’s shadow dissonance is listed as 1,6. That means it has a 7 frame startup. However this is not the case. Reason being, gargos’ H and M portal punches are both -6 on block. However Shadow dissonance is can punish it. So I came to the conclusion that it has a 6f startup instead of 7. Which would put it at a startup of 1,5.
That’s how I go about my business when figuring out frame data that doesn’t appear to be accurate. I test the supposed frame data listed on something corresponding to it. And that’s how I get my results in training mode.
TBH, it’s kind of a bummer that in-game frame data isn’t 100% reliable. feelssadman
Except, how would you determine the number of frames before the freeze and how many after?
Also, I’m not basing any of my data on in game numbers. I’m recording every move and counting each frame individually.
Though your method is sound for determining the total number of startup frames, mine allows me to see when my opponent’s animation has stopped, and when it has started. Giving me the number’s for both before and after the stop, as well as the total.
If all you want is the total startup, that’s fine. But to be completely accurate, I must know every number. It’s a gruelling process, but it’s what’s needed.
That’s rather easy. For shadow moves I just hit buttons corresponding to the shadow move. If it beats, trades or loses to the shadow then I know it’s around that range.
For example, gargos’ shadow portal punch is 6,6. 12 frames tartup. Now, if you hit buttons during the freeze they will come out one the first frame available. So say you want to throw gsragos right? Throws are 5 frames so once the freeze is done and the throw is input it will beat out the shadow PP. Now I try it again with a 6 frame startup move and I get get counterhit. because the shadow move and the 6f move connect on the same frame in which case the priority system takes over and the shadow move wins because it’s the highest on the priority scale.
Then after that I go find a move (for gargos’ shadow PP if I didn’t bleive it was 6,6 for example), that’s -12 on block, do a reversal shadow PP and see if it hits. If it does great, I know the move has a 12f startup. Then I can piece together the remaining startup frames. And/Or I just keep going lower on the block advantage (-12, then -11, then -10) till the move can’t punish anything…
I only use this method for shadow moves since the screen freeze allows me to gauge things in slow time. And really only for the startup frames. If I want to guage other propties of the move then I go right in solo play fight the AI then do the move that I want to test over and over during the match, beat the AI, head to replays, watch it and count.