What do you consider pay to win?

I play all sorts of games, and have for over 30 years.

Now, all I notice is how 95%of games have some pay to win aspect to it. The only games that don’t really seem to have it are 1v1 fighing games.

I bring this up because of Star Wars Battlefront 2, and the other new games that I have bought recently.

It seems like all these newer games have some sort of “loot box” for sale. I am not a fan of them, but they bother me alot less when it is just cosmetic items. If someone wants to spend $200.00 on itmes in a game to make them look different, then fine. My real issue is loosing in a game for the next six months because I didn’t want to drop a bunch on money on itmes to make me stronger. I want to do that though game play.

I bring that issues up because I feel that more and more game’s are turning into Pay to Win. Alot of people just thunk of Free to Play as Pay to Win games, but there are alot more full priced games that are starting to do this garbage.

I am just curious to see what some of you guys feel is a Pay to Win trick. Is it only PtW if they only sell the items for real money? How about if it is just something that makes it easier for you. An extra item, or item slot, is that PtW? What if it is nothing but a small stat boost? Is it Pay to Win if they just spend $50 to get an item early? Something like you will get the same items, but it might take over 200 hours if game play to get them.

I just miss the times when you were good at at game because you played it, not because you dropped $500.00 on day one to get the best itmes.

This is why I like KI and other 1v1 fighters. I need to play the game, and get better if I want to win. I can’t just drop "x " dollars and start winning.

Let me knowing what you guys think a Pay to Win game is.

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You pay for enhancements to make “you” stronger than your opponent? It’s a pay to win game.

You pay for “skins”? It’s not a pay to win game.

I wanted to keep this very simple so we can all have two sides with a straight line in between.

I think my definition of pay to win is pretty liberal. It’s more or less only pay to win if you need to pay to get something that is demonstrably a competetive advantage. I don’t think “pay to reduce the grind” systems are “pay to win.” At the end of the day, whether it’s time or money, someone is always going to have more resources to devote to the game than I do. So unlocking stuff faster doesn’t meet the bar for me.

Like a lot of things in gaming, I think all the hue and cry for this stuff is overblown. Salty people losing games ranting on message boards that the game is pay to win instead of getting better.

Having said that, I don’t buy loot boxes for anything.

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This.

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theres a gun in a game. an assault rifle, you can earn it normally. then theres the Super Assault Rifle with under barrel grenade launcher and drum magazine for only 4.99 and you cant get it any other way, and it has higher stats to boot. as a side effect game balance favors it also, while youre stuck with the base model. you buy it, you pile up them bodies and pad them kill death stats. thats pay 2 win

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Pay to win is when you can use money to circumvent the balance of the game, either by getting something that can only be obtained that way or is much easier to obtain that way. For example, if there’s a way to unlock something early that’s really good. You can technically grind for it, but you bet your bottom dollar they’ve balanced their game’s leveling to make the grind so arduous that you’d have to put in hundreds of hours to get this thing.

Now that doesn’t mean all paid add-on content is pay to win. There are lots of games that offer new weapons or characters via DLC, but they’re just about always balanced I’m some way (i.e. the Peacekeeper in Black Ops 2 is a very solid weapon with low recoil and fast handling characteristics, but its slow rate of fire and low damage still keep its usefulness limited to a certain role).
In addition, lots of RPG games have more powerful arms and armor in Expansion packs, but they balance it out by providing much bigger challenges.

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I know the ovious pay to win game tricks, but I think that some are hidden better, so they don’t get flagged as pay to win. I will use Star Wars as an example. Mainly because I want others that are thinking about this game to know what they are walking into.

In the game you have cards that alter your stats. There are cards for the characters and ships. When a person buys enough cards to improve their stats to 40% more damage, and a 40% resistance to damage. How is the player supposed to win, unless they do the same thing. If you grind you could get those stats in about 2-3 weeks, but now because people just bought them, it causes people to lose more and slows their process down. Now that same grind will take about 2 months. I still consider this pay to win, because even though I will get those items over time, they still have a large advantage until I do.

Both your general definition of “pay to win” and this statement line up entirely with my own take on things. If you want to pay to reduce your grind, well, that’s your money, and I might even get free additional content out of it down the line (like in Mass Effect 3).

Having said that, I’m personally disinclined to spend money on such things. If I have the time to unlock by playing then cool beans; if not, then it is what it is.

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