What are some ideas for an alternative instinct for characters?

Even though I think most v-triggers are weak and are a blatant ripoff of the instinct mechanic, I do appreciate that SFV finally gives you a choice between two v-triggers for every character. I think if every character in KI had an alternative instinct, it would shake up the game quite a bit.

Jago - Tiger Pressure - instead gaining life for every endoken landed, every endoken causes potential damage on top of its normal damage when hit raw or blocked (when blocked it cause chip and less potential damage when hit raw). He can still keep the double endoken and frame advantage buffs. I remember seeing Thompson applying pressure to his blocking opponents in the corner by inputting a normal -> double endoken -> normal -> double endoken and so on. He was still gaining meter and the opponent was locked down. This would just add to the pressure while while trading it for the life recovery.

Omen - Shadow Dash - Omen can already use his shadow form for almost instant overheads. I think it would be gnarly if he could get the left-right mixup that Shago has when he dashes through an opponent when popping instinct. Its subtle but strong. You got to remember that Omen’s throw restands the opponent and is wonderful for resets. It can get even nastier in the corner for him.

Those are two of my suggestions. What are some of yours? I’ll try to add more later.

If you don’t mind, why not post your ideas on my thread here. We need to keep the creativity going

I would be ok with that. Didn’t know there was an active thread already on the topic.

Mods, I’m ok if you remove this.

I dont underhand how this is an instinct for OMEN. Are you saying unlimited shadow form for the instinct duration?

Not the shadow form. Just the ability to use Shago’s shadow dash while instinct is popped. Shago’s shadow dash has faster recovery than the shadow form.

IM still lost…what does Shago’s shadow slide have to do with a new instinct for Omen? And what does shadow form have to do with either? Im just trying to understand your idea.


Scroll down and look for his teleport dash.

You can also see shadow Jago dash here too

NO dude…I know what Shagos moves are…“What does his moves have anything to do with Omens instinct?” How is that and “INSTINCT?”

You are not explaining how Omens new instinct would work and what it would contain."

Are you saying that Omens new instinct would just be “Omen gets a teleport dash>”?? That’s it? If so all the opponent would do is hold up, just like they do now after flip out.
If Omen throws and then instinct cancels into a teleport dash, there has to be a break point there… so it would look cool but I dont see how it would be better than Instinct into shadow slide.

Yes that’s all I’m saying. He just gets a teleport dash.

Omen already has shadow form, but it is too slow for left/right mixups. Shago’s dash is much faster.

I like to keep the opponent blocking until they make a mistake. It’s harder doing it in the middle of the screen than in the corner. I like to do stuff like (very simple example):

Forward HP -> QCF HP Or QCB HP -> some low normal or shadow form overhead.

With the instinct I imagine that I could do:

Forward HP -> QCF HP Or QCB HP -> teleport dash to the other side with a low normal, teleport dash to the other side with a throw, same side low normal, or shadow form overhead.

If you anticipate them holding up, just down HP them.

I’ll take a crack at this, and while I’m sure most of them will be garbos, hopefully one or two will be cool ideas. :slight_smile:

Jago: Fire wind kick. Gains a Fiery Wind Kick which does twice the damage, can go full screen, travels faster, is less minus on block, and he gains the ability to cancel it in to three different moves while traveling to the opponent: Laser Sword, his jumping overhead, or a sweep depending on which kick button you press during wind kick.

Sabrewulf: Projectiles, eclipse projectiles and projectiles off of enders. He can throw a green energy projectiles of varying sizes and speeds. He can also throw three projectiles of varying angles off of eclipse. They also attach to any ender, and the number of projectiles that come out during an ender depends on what level the ender is, so he can throw up to four after an ender.

Glacius: Quicker walk and jump speed as well as Ice Clone. Glacius creates a clone of himself that mimics everything he does. The clone disappears once he’s knocked down and he’ll have to regenerate it if he has instinct left.

Thunder: Tornado summon and recapture tornado summon. Can create a small funnel cloud that blows the opponent up in to the air and toward him a little ways. He can also recapture an airborn opponent in a tornado, which leaves them stunned for a second.

Sadira: Instant wakeup and Air downward flip kick. By pressing up the second she hits the ground, Sadira will instantly get up and be ready to attack. She also gains a mid-air flip kick that acts as a recapture so she can knock enemies in to the air, do some damage, then take them to the ground with the flip kick to continue the assault.

Orchid: Gains her lasaken projectile and grenade improvement. Travels quickly and can be detonated to explode at any point during the throw. Can cause a hard knockdown on a non-blocking opponent. Can also be used during blockade runner, air buster, ichi ni san or flick flack, but not in combos. Grenade toss can also be cancelled in to lasaken, which detonates the grenade in mid-air for both damage and a hard knockdown.

Spinal: Move steal and Mega skull. He gains the ability to steal a random move from his opponent if he power devours anything during instinct. Opponent cannot use stolen move for the duration of instinct, but Spinal can. Might replace one of his special moves. Can drain his whole meter by throwing a green skull that’s half the size of the screen at the opponent. Hits as hard as a near fully charged devastation beam.

Fulgore: Instinct Sacrifice and Energy net. Once Fulgore pops instinct, as long as he has more than half of his meter left, he can sacrifice it to completely fill his up his pips. Energy net can be used twice during instinct. Throws a blue energy net at the opponent, which travels about half screen distance. Has a relatively slow start up time, but to compensate, it cannot be blocked. The only way to not get trapped in the net and be briefly electrocuted, giving Fulgore the chance to get in and start a combo on you, is to jump or dash away from it.

Shadow Jago: Command Tether. If Shago dashes through the opponent or hits them with a fireball, a thicker, bluish purple tether attaches to the opponent. If Shago dashes backwards, it pulls the opponent toward him and they fall to the ground for a hard knockdown. Minor damage. If he dashes toward the opponent, the tether lifts the opponent off the ground, electrocutes the opponent and releases them for a ground bounce. Does throw damage. Both moves can be done while either Shago, the opponent, or both of them are in air. Both moves can be blocked.

TJ Combo: Speed Bag and Catch counter. Pressing LP does three quick speed bag style punches with his right hand. It’s an opener and he can press this multiple times to do multiple speed bag punches with both hands either in to a combo or until his meter blows out, at which point he’ll throw a hard hook that spins the opponent around and drops them to the ground. By pressing back and the throw buttons, TJ can catch any high or medium punch, kick, or non-projectile special move in to shoot toss, but this will not launch the opponent like regular shoot toss.

Maya: Swords and Storm daggers: She taps the yellow and purple circles on her daggers together and both grow to the length of swords. They can be used the exact same way as the daggers, but they’re harder to avoid and they do more damage. She can also use her whole instinct meter to summon tons of daggers that rain down on the opponent for massive damage.

Kan Ra: Mesmerize and Hypnotize. If he catches the opponent in clutch during instinct, blue waves pulsate from the opponent, through the bandages, and toward Kan Ra. He gains some shadow meter as the opponent loses it. Once the move ends, the opponent is left standing still as a statue, briefly mesmerized, giving Kan Ra a small opening to attack. If he throws an opponent, they not only have a floaty jump, but their light and heavy buttons will be reversed, and any time they knock down Kan Ra, they’ve been hypnotized in to falling down as well until the curse ends.

Riptor: Pack attack. Riptor lets out a roar and two more stalkers enter the battle. Downside is that they’re both first batch models and they’re unpredictable. They won’t attack Riptor, but they might not attack the opponent all the time and they may even attack each other a little. The opponent can do moves on them to knock them down or get by them, but they only leave the screen once instinct mode ends.

Omen: Faster jump speed and a new damage ender. His jump speed will be more in the range of Jago’s. His new ender will use the same D/F + lights as demonic despair, only instead of the slow start up and the opponent and taking 100% potential damage, he quickly reaches out and ends the combo with a faster version of demonic despair that does slightly more than normal damage ender.

Aganos: Auto chunk gain plus Speedster. Instead of having to manually generate chunks, one will automatically apper every few seconds. Also, Aganos mask will glow as his speed drastically increases to that of Jagos. Everything he does, from jumping, to walking, normals, special moves, etc all increase to a more standard speed.

Hisako: Different vengeance upgrades and hold descent / descent throw: Vengence has a shorter whiff animation, and while all three punches will catch high or low attacks which will start combos, all three kicks will become counter throws that cause hard knockdowns. She can also hold heavy kick when she does descent to stay underground longer, but instead of popping up like she normally does, she leaps out of the ground and on to the opponents back, scratching and clawing at them until they fall down.

ARIA: Drone revive / drone heal and more damaging specials. She can only do this once during instinct, but if one of her drones is defeated, she can revive it with a small amount of health. If none of her drones have been defeated, they’ll both get a small amount of health. As for her specials, regular shotgun blitz hits four times, while the shadow version hits seven times. Same goes for explosive arc. Crecendo hits harder and has two hits of armor. Allegro hits four times while shadow allegro hits seven times. Dissonance hits five times while shadow dissonance hits eight times.

Cinder: Fire Up taunt, increased damage and near invincibility. He can manually entire fired up state by taunting, every normal and special move increases damage-wise, and he can change to a slim outline, which fades in and out, so for a few seconds at a time here and there, he’ll be completely invisible.

Kim Wu: Fire flower and low dragon cannons. For fire flower, she jumps slightly in to the air and an explosion of light pops from her hand. This acts as an anti air, however it can also be used as an opener on the ground, a linker, as well as a hard knockdown ender. Also, instead of being able to throw regenerating dragon cannons toward the opponent’s high/mid range area, she can instead throw them low, which causes stagger just like the dragon cannons in her other instinct.

Tusk: Flame sword. If Tusk’s sword glows (even a little bit), any deflect done with the sword lightly singes the opponent, doing a tiny bit of extra damage. He also gets access to a fire projectile (QCF + P) that flies from the sword toward the ground of the opponent at varying speeds depending on the button press. Once it lands, there’s a small flame burst, medium flame burst or large flame burst depending on the button pressed. Heavy punch goes slowest, has the biggest flame, hits the hardest, but drains the sword of it’s heat the most. It can be blocked, of course. When Tusk’s sword is at peak burning, the sword itself catches fire. Now, doing a heavy fireball attack will send a stream of fire toward the opponent on a path of fire toward the ground, which explodes upward in spiral columns of flame. This drains the sword of all heat, but does about as much damage as a throw.

Mira: Enchantment, improved mist, and attachable bats. For enchantment, doing an embrace command on the ground will make Mira extend her arm and gesture the opponent toward her. Long recovery time. If the opponent is on the ground and not blocking, they will walk toward her and she will do an embrace throw. Her mist form will last slightly longer and cause no blood damage. If her bats hit an unblocking opponent, they will feed on the opponent until instinct runs out. She can attach several bats to the opponent if the opponent isn’t blocking and while they don’t do much damage, it’s still a slow leak of damage over time.

Gargos: Stone spear, stone thorns and stone shield. The first is a fast moving projectile that hits high. The second can be activated only when Gargos is on the ground. Stone thorns quickly protrude from his body at all angles, forcing anyone trying to attack him while he’s down to think otherwise. The thorns quickly fall off and take four seconds before he can regenerate them again. Stone shield is a slab of stone that he generates in front of himself. It comes out relatively slowly and falls to the ground quickly and disintegrates, but if the opponent strikes it, they will be repelled backwards.

Eyedol: Manual switch, Demon gaze and Demon fear. Only takes one punch every time to change forms. In mage form, Eyedol can shoot a purple laser from his eye that paralyzes the opponent momentarily, leaving them open for attack. In warrior form, landing a throw on the opponent will cause the opponent to stay on the ground slightly longer, giving Eyedol the chance to pound his chest once. This gives him a very slight damage boost or a very slight health boost, the result is random. However, it also lowers the opponents damage AND health. Multiple throws will obviously lead to an opponent whose attacks don’t do a ton of damage, but this effect goes away once instinct ends.

Eagle: Unlimited arrows and increased draw speed. He can pull, draw and shoot all of his arrows more quickly, and he has an unlimited stock of them during instinct. Once instinct ends however, his arrow count drops to zero.

Okay, I’m done for now. Most of these are insanely OP anyways lol, but I was just thinking of stuff that might either be fun or might mitigate a character’s weakness a bit, or maybe even both. I’d do Kilgore, Shin Hisako and the guests, but I dunno, maybe later?

Can’t wait to see these get torn to shreds lol.


Geez! That’s a lot of writing. Looks promising.

I know I’ve said this already, but if you don’t mind can you put your ideas in my “Alternate Instincts” thread so we can keep all your awesome ideas in one place. Sorry for sounding demanding. Thanks in advance.

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Alright I’m going to dissect this in pieces. I will be critical but don’t take it too hard. I don’t know everything under the sun about fighting games either…

Jago - Don’t like it. It feels like it’s too much and just encourages scrubby play. It’s turning a footsie character into a thoughtless rushdown mixup character.

Sabrewulf - Don’t like it. Wulf never needs to zone. Doesn’t fit his archetype and I don’t think the new projectiles would create good synergy with his regular moves.

Glacius - this is a better idea but I think that it’s too powerful for a character like glacius. He already hits like a truck. Giving him Yun’s super is ridiculous.

Thunder - I can image that it acts similar to Rashid’s V-trigger. Slow moving and intimidating. It would promote careful execution and thoughtful play. I like it.

I’ll write more later…

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Yeah I’ll freely admit that there’s little subtlety in any of my ideas. Sadira’s might be the most subtle and even then…

I think Instincts should be scary, and a little OP. And I think many of the current Instincts are, but they’re just more subtle or their applications might not be as obvious right away. Hisako with full wrath, Cinder always fires up, Wulf’s feral cancels… None of these have the pizazz of Shadow Jago’s mini ultimate or whatever, but they’re all frightening.

I kinda wanted to go in a more overt direction though. Something that a player walking right in on the first day can look at and immediately see that they’ve got some fun new toys to play with.

With Jago, I thought it might be fun to get a high powered version of his wind kick that has all this extra stuff to terrorize your opponent with. Same goes with a character like Wulf that has a dash through getting a projectile.

That said, I know not everyone will like these and that’s totally fine. Just throwing out some ideas. Some of them (okay most of them) could be more well thought out lol. It’s all good! Critique away. I just kinda threw them out there, so I thought I’d give a little bit of my thought process as well. Not looking to change minds. :slightly_smiling_face:


As for the thread, maybe a mod could merge it with the existing topic?

Sadira: …hmmm I might be ok with the instant wake up. I think I would like a rolling wake up recovery ability more.

Orchid: “Gains her lasaken projectile and grenade improvement. Travels quickly and can be detonated to explode at any point during the throw.”. Let’s stop right there and it’s perfect.

Spinal: No freaking way! If he is going to get a Mega skull he’s going to need to use all the resources he has. That means 6 (or 5, I forget his limit) skulls, 2 bars of meter and the rest of his popped instinct… Hey that doesn’t sound too bad now. It would definitely be hype to watch.

The move steal thing is interesting but complicated. I have no desire to watch spinal imitate Aganos’s moveset. But I do think that the ability to lock out one of the oppents moves when parried during the remainder of his instinct would be doable in this type of game. They wouldn’t be able to do their respective linkers or enders either. Shadow moves would still be permitted because they still cost meter.

Fulgore: I’m pretty fine with this… Yea that’s great!