The Replay and Analysis Thread


#886

TJ Takes some workings but Jago needs good neutral to be solid. If you want, we can run some Jago Mirrors tonight. I’ll have you give me your best, and try to block it, then I’ll do the same. We can run some actual matches too and see how you handle certain situations. That’s really the best way to get better, is watch yourself play, and see what you keep getting hit by and how you keep getting your hits. Then it’s a matter of capitalizing on your confirms and adding mixups to the offense.


#887

Need to learn him first. Then we can sure do some sets.


#888

This may sound strange, but to a certain extent that is expected. You are used to playing in a certain style, and even if the suggested adaptations are a better style of play overall, your execution of them will likely be stilted and unpracticed. This is natural.

If the information you got was too much, too fast, I’d recommend simply picking a single thing you’d like to work on, and spend a few matches working on only that one thing. Everything else about your play can be as it normally is, but try to incorporate that one piece of feedback into your play. That should make it more manageable.

Also, remember that some (a lot) of the feedback was specifically about the Kan-Ra match-up. It won’t all transfer over to other fights.

I actually think he’s probably harder to master. Jago as an archetype “gets away” with a lot less stuff than TJ does, and his all-rounder qualities and ease of use mean most of the player base is quite used to facing him. It’s very difficult at this point in the game’s life to surprise someone with Jago; that’s not necessarily the case with TJ.

The meterless invincible reversal and projectile will definitely give you some tools you didn’t have before, but you’ll also be losing some fantastic space control and mixup options. End of the day they are both good characters - I’d just caution against thinking playing Jago will automatically be easier. In a lot of ways you have to be even more careful with him.


#889

I dont know how you understood my replies. The tips are obviously good. It just the thing that i need to change my whole playstyle and work on maaaaaaany points. Thats why i wanted to try jago but is somehow not my style either and i dont like his tech.


#890

What playstyle do you lean to then? Its obvious that you’re not enjoying either character for a reason


#891

I have only TJ and Jago. I dont have any other choice. I like the playstyle where you somehow control the match from a distance. Thats why probably i go back and then i go in when i feel my opponent made a mistake or is not ready for my attack.


#892

That’s a big part probably on why your having trouble. You purposefully put yourself in a disadvantage when your characters aren’t effective in the range you want to be in. Although TJ can no way be a long range fighter, Jago can be a decent mid range fighter however with some good reactions. Try just getting a lil closer with him. Once you get a lil more comfortable, you can inch your playspace a lil closer after that


#893

Something really important (over anything else) to me is knowing your character. To do this at first I wouldn’t play against people but the AI (after training) to get my execution done. I want to master the special moves and get decent combos for punishing. I’ll check my options for anti airing too and any move to clear the pressure out (an invincible shadow, for instance).

I may have wasted time doing all this but then I was ready to get (badly) beaten by players better than me. That’s when I went to study the Match ups, with better knowledge of my whole toolset and how to defend myself against those characters (of course is not the character alone, but that’s another aspect of fighthing games).

With good execution you can beat anyone who doesn’t understand the Match ups. And if you are even better with the character or with your mind games and readings. Oh My…

Imo TJ can deal with Kan Ra, thought is hard to find the gaps. With TJ you can bait stuff, cancel Powerline without putting yourself in danger, forcing the wrong guesses and then go in and do your BnB combos.
You can start with that chain : I think is mp-hp (stagger) mp - hp again and linkers ,and keep going.

You don’t need his jabs to start a combo. TJ can be also hard to break when he uses those down - up + punches juggles. If you get a lock out I do think auto barrage is a good option.

You can dodge fireballs multiple times with his roll.
In short, TJ can deal with zoning (I love Powerline!). His real problem (imo) is when he is getting the pressure.


#894

You might like Glacius, his tool selection feels like a shoto - DP, Fireball, Tatsu. You can do massive damage from close up if you manage to lockout your opponent with meter. You can also back up and control the matchup from a distance, using three hails or catching your opponent on an unblockable shatter is great too.

If you don’t want to change your playstyle to much, I’d say Glacius would suit you. Just keep in mind that he’s a pretty slow and floaty character.


#895

Set between myself and @INDIxion that we played recently. Starts at 1:37:40 (minus some technical difficulties) for a FT3 and an additional match for lolz. Any critiques/criticisms/suggestions would be welcome. Thanks.


#896

Dont have him:/


#897

A button masher will break your combo probably 25% of the time or less (if you go from opener -> linker often and vary your combo enough). But you need to think about the risk/reward of this: every time your opponent breaks the combo, he still took damage (probably at least 10% on average, often a lot more if you were using heavies), and still has white life on him so your next hit is more valuable. Every time he locks out, you can push your combo damage really high really quickly.

It can usually feel like mashing works some percentage of the time, but in the end it really doesn’t pay. You will very quickly do huge amounts of risk-free damage to your opponent, and that’s even without just using a counter breaker to kill him immediately.

In particular, I would suggest going from opener -> linker more often. Linkers can’t be broken during startup, so if your opponent is mashing he will get a timing lockout a lot of the time.

As for that second part, it really just depends on your goals for the game. If you want to just mash and have fun and not think about improving too much, that’s totally fine. If you want to try to improve though, you’ll have to practice and accept losing (a lot) as part of getting better.


#898

I wanna get better. But it will take so much time. A year or so to learn all the set ups and all the match ups. I mean I may know how to fight against Jago. Thats it. I need to work on ALL the other match ups and that takes time. And when i say a year I mean it cause i have a busy life. And the other thing is. If you take a break from KI and fighting games. You start from square one. I like KI but… Its a pain in socks to get better man.


#899

Being good at anything takes time. I’ve been a Sadira main since S1 and do this day, I’m still learning new tech. In fact this week I learned a new nasty juggle combo. Also you can take breaks and come back. I’ve done it for years with KI and SF. Yes you are a bit rusty, but muscle memory is hard to forget.

It’s all about improving. If you are always moving forward then every moment spent is worth it.


#900

Tbh I learned most of my basic Eagle setups in a month and I just added from there. You’re overestimating really the amount of work needed for this


#901

While it probably does take a long amount of time to learn every match up, it really doesn’t take quite that long to reach a point where you can have a solid gameplan with a character. I’d suggest focusing on that and only afterwards start diving into match up specifics, otherwise you’ll get overwhelmed.


#902

So you pick, how invested do you want to be? I’m still just a casual player. I’ve never sat there to grind out matchups or anything. The knowledge I’ve accumulated is from streams, tourneys and personal experience. Yes it will always take time to get better at something. No one is born knowing how to tie their shoes. So the question you should answer for yourself, is how much do you love the game. Is it worth it? It takes time to get good at any game. Even Mario.


#903

It takes time. I know. Maybe if i buy this game i will find it more interesting. (Pretty sure i will)
Anyway this Thread isnt about me. Thanks for the advice again. @SoSRaGnArOk @FallibleJoker14 @SullenMosquito .
And @FallibleJoker14 , you may learned eagle in one month. That doesnt mean that i can learn TJ in one month. There are so many factors that you need to consider.
Have a nice weekend everybody.


#904

Just wanted to put it into perspective. Although I learned everything, it still took a lot more time to actually apply naturally in combat. Its different for everybody.
No problem have a good one


#905

Eh. The MU’s you learn are the one’s that you play often - there are several characters in KI that I really don’t know the MU for, and I play the game at tournament level. You learn from each experience that you encounter, and then you mostly just try to extrapolate that information usefully to characters you are unfamiliar with. The only MU’s I’ve played with the express intent to “learn” are MU’s that I’ve lost to in tournament - everything else I’ve just picked up while playing the game for fun. You don’t have to deep-dive (and in truth I wouldn’t recommend it) into a character’s individual match-ups to be solid or even good.

End of the day, play (or don’t) at the level you feel comfortable with for having fun. I don’t think it’s necessary to grind the game to learn or improve, and you certainly shouldn’t do that if the grinding process itself isn’t fun. So long as you’re enjoying your playtime that’s really the only thing that matters :slight_smile: