The Replay and Analysis Thread

Just finished the Tiger and Joker Set.

I’ve never seen that matchup before, so it was a treat.

@FallibleJoker14, I’d love to play your Eagle sometime. I haven’t fought much with Kim, but I’m sure it will be fun, and maybe I can learn something for my own Eagle fighting you.

@oTigerSpirit

We must do battle once more. :yin_yang:

2 Likes

It would be an honor :slight_smile:

All I will say however, is that i changed up my style a lot after the analysis by Infil. Still use my old tricks tho and I’ve been working on some new ones as well. Weekends are always a good time :+1:

This is a bit tricky for me. Being a full time college student, I work on the weekends, but I’m sure we will find a time.

1 Like

Haha, sorry, just haven’t had enough time to sit down and watch. I watched a few scattered matches in the Rico vid. I will try again with the sound muted to see if that helps me focus more on the gameplay and less on what’s being said.

1 Like

Well,once we had a set and he said that “I wasn’t bad at all…for a GIRL” :rofl:

I saw those matches today, Nice stuff Dul :grin:

I enjoy watching Rico playing to be honest. I also pay attention to what he says. But I do think he was annoyed by Dul interrumping his gameplan. Those are the type of things many top players (at least in KI) seem to dislike.

3 Likes

I mean. . . .they may be top players. . . . .but I’m no slouche either. Given the time and adjustments. . . . . .i could give them the work, no job application.

4 Likes

I find it amusing that some people are surprised that females can smack people around too in Fighting games.

It’s like this one time at an arcade, they had SF3: Third Strike. I was playing with a couple of buddies, and this girl asked if she could play against me. (Since I was kinda dominating because my friends don’t play fighting games lol)

My friends are like:

“Go easy on her.” (Generalization)

I shook my head and proceeded to play with her. She played Ken, so it was a classic footsies matchup since I played Ryu. It was back and forth, her winning a match and then me. My friends couldn’t believe it lol. She said thanks for the games after a while then left.

Of course my friends were kinda snickering that I got beat a few times, but I think they realized that girls can dominate super competitive games too lol.

(Sorry for going Off-Topic, just wanted to share a story. :wink: )

9 Likes

So I wanna start by saying that most of you might know me about the Tbag topics.
Anyway. In the meantime I tried to improve myself and Winning Killer is not “wow” for me anymore.
Some people Recommented this thread so I will try it out.

This is a match with Kan Ra.

I dont even know what to do on this match up.
you will see me just crouching at the corner thinking about how to aproach.
And i need to work on my inputs i know.
But if xou have any advice on how to deal with him, that would be great.

1 Like

It’s great that you’re posting vids here. It really helped how i played.

General tips:

  • I don’t play TJ or Ra but i know for a fact that TJ should not be just sitting in the corner if he doesn’t have a life lead. You’re just making easier for Ra. Stay on top of him and don’t let him go.

  • You never escaped any clutch (grab) attempts. They are hard to counter but there were some that were…how do say it…PREDICTABLE -Kanra
    That Kanra wasn’t doing that many nasty setups so I’d be safe to say that you were escaping with murder at times

  • Work on maximizing combos, the one combo that wasn’t an auto barrage consisted off heavy linkers and medium ADs. All that damage counts

  • I noticed from these few matches that your only way of approach is to use poweline. Either you powerline grab or roll and jab. You might have to think on how to open up your opponent differently. It doesn’t hurt to just walk up to him slowly. (IDK if you know but you can hit the locust swarms to make it go away.

  • When that Kanra missed a counter break oppurtuinity, you had some weird responses. One time you just jab into shadow uppercut. You might want to learn to new ways to convert to combos other then jab.

  • Ground pound causes a full screen knockdown that can allow you to close in with roll. It’s a real great tool for this MU

  • Don’t rely too much on auto barrage, there are other options

  • Break game needs work but that’s something gained through more expierance

  • Juggles need some work as well. You only used the ground pound move after a throw.

I bet there are much better tips others can give you. Besides Kan-Ra can be a real hassle at times.

Also if you don’t mind me asking, how long have you been playing? I don’t want to assume anything.

2 Likes

I started 3-4 months ago with Jago(free version). I got TJ like 2 months ago. I Know I need to start do some mix ups and stuff but I just need to practice I guess…
I ALWAYS forget about tremor out of combo. I need to use that more. Forward dash has too much recovery so powerline/roll is much better. walk is safe too.
You can punch the swarm???
I always drop my combos man. And if you see I sometimes try to manual and then tremor(after uppercut) but I always miss it.

I’ve jotted some notes that I hope give you some insights about fundamentals since I am not to knowledgeable with TJ. Bear that in mind as it may not suit you or your playstyle. Otherwise, most of it applies to your tendencies and something to correct for your future matches.

Feedback

  • This may be due to unfamiliarity, but you walk back an awful lot.

This doesn’t really help you in any way and only allows Ra to setup sands and think of his next approach. In this matchup, you want to keep Ra pressured and especially keep him from running away. Your approach was in his favor and the main reason he won.

  • Work on pressuring your opponent. Whether Ra or any character in the cast, it’s important to know who has a wakeup (meterless or one that requires meter) and who doesn’t.

Ra doesn’t really have a way to get out of pressure unless he has sand. Without sand down, all he can do is explode in the same position and cause damage to himself. Throw some jabs at him, throw him or even tick throw him if you have to. You could also feint a throw with his backstep and go for a shoot toss; mixup your pressure, vary your approach, but ultimately stay in his face.

  • You tend to do Powerline too often from fullscreen.

When Ra already has his Swarm out even your Powerline is armored, it will get stopped because Swarm hits multiple times. If you notice someone is spamming from fullscreen, use tremor to get a knockdown then utilize your Powerline for mobility. But don’t just throw it out even if you get a knockdown, roll through swarm or roll to get in faster.

  • Them dropped combos maaan.

I can’t give you too much grief on this because it happens, especially with a character dependent on specials where both timing and reach are crucial. If it helps, like it did me, add a normal after a launcher - throw in a standing heavy or a medium kick then go for a recapture or another juggle. This really just comes down to familiarizing yourself with timing and hit box. You can be more lenient with Aganos opposed to Kim Wu, so timing is dependent on different scenarios. Lab that out and see how it works, though it shouldn’t be all that different.

I’ve also noticed that if you delay the opponents fall you can get a target combo off, which looks cool and does well for varied combos.

  • Punish!

You missed some major opportunities to punish your opponents because you were relying heavily on jabbing your opponent. It’s good to jab someone to assert your turn, but use it sparingly.

You can use standing HP > H. Flying Knee, or just go directly into H. Flying Knee if it’s easiest for you. Personally, I love using standing HP because it staggers which allows for a varied combo and good means to lock your opponent. Speaking of lockout, Auto Barrage is good, but you have meter consider the following:

0 Meter: HP > HK > MP > MK > LP > LK Auto-Barrage (41%)
1 Meter: HP double > light Flying Knee > HP double > light Flying Knee > Shadow Flying Knee > Flying Knee ender (52%)
2 Meter: HP double > light Flying Knee > Shadow Flying Knee > Shadow Flying Knee > Flying Knee ender (59%)

The above is your optimal combos, does the most damage in the span of a lockout. But, not necessarily ideal if they are break heavy, which your opponent was. In which case mixup you approach like the one I mentioned that I like to do.

  • Avoid Counter Breaking if the risk is too high and the opponent hasn’t fallen for it already.

Counter breaking is a viable option if someone is guess breaking too often or you are intentionally conditioning your opponent so you can bait the next attack, like doing heavy auto doubles in the middle of your combo. However, if you are near death, you open a combo - just keep punching him.

Ideally, you shouldn’t counter in a situation where it will cost you the game unless you have a solid read or have the strongest gut feeling. The worse that can happen is you’ll get broken and go back to the neutral, but even then you still did damage. By counter breaking you are open to a hard punish and jeopardize the remainder of your life.

  • Mind your combo breaks

Not to say you shouldn’t break, but there are good and bad breaks. Ultimately, ask yourselves what you gain if you break and what you risk if you don’t. Does the risk warrant the break?

Based on the match it seemed like you were somewhat frantic in your breaks. Meaning you either broke because your opponent broke before you or you saw a mashable-breaking shadow and thought you could get away with it. Sometimes it is best to just sit there and take the damage, hoping the opponent hangs himself by thinking you will break, especially if he already expects it out of you.

I hope my comments provided some insight. I know it can be quite intimidating to have your work critique and sometimes it stings to see yourself and have others tell you that you could have done this and that. So I applaud you for doing so with haste, it took me until recently to do so, I get it. If you want, I can make a quick and dirty TJ Combo reel when I get home later. I’m no TJ main, but I found some neat stuff that works fairly well in an unranked setting. Keep it up though dude, you got this! TJ is no slouch, he is a hard-read based character with no meterless wakeup. But he is way too fun to drop honestly, stick with it, lab some of the suggestions and see what worked and what didn’t.

Good luck dude.

6 Likes

@MikeAtzem

Some things to work on for the TJ/Kan-Ra matchup…

Never allow Kan-Ra space, if at all possible. Kan-Ra literally thrives in the full-screen game and would like nothing more than what you offered him at the beginning of the games and in-between rounds; backing away to 3/4 to full-screen. His tools at that range outshine TJ’s by a mile. Take the opportunity at the start of the game and in-between rounds to get within striking distance.

Rollercoaster, the roll TJ has, is both a useful tool as well as a dangerous one. Rollercoaster is projectile immune so you can use it to just bulldog you way through Swarms and close distance on Kan-Ra at your will. On the flipside, unless you space your rolls well, you can come out of your roll getting clipped by a nearby Swarm and be vulnerable. Likewise, Rollercoaster is not throw invulnerable. A savvy Kan-Ra can get a read for when you want to try it and counter with a command grab.

Kan-Ra’s jump is floaty and slow, so much so that if there are no Swarms out, you can easily Powerline punish jump-ins and jump backs. But you also have to know about what Kan-Ra is capable of in the air. He has a ridiculous J. HP (the one where he spins and swings the bandages) and can cancel his jump normals into Swarms on hit and on block. You’ll have to gauge if they’re the type of Kan-Ra that will just abuse a good jump normal or use the normals/swarm cancels as a tool to keep you still.

Kan’s command grab might be the most reactable one in the game, once you get a feel for how it looks as well as when you usually see it. Also, be aware that if Kan-Ra does snatch you with that command grab, they can (to a certain degree) control what direction they will slam you. So they can use this to setup a grab that is right over a sand trap for continued pressure, right below a swarm for continued pressure, or for simple corner positioning. He also has anti-air command grabs, but he is very punishable if he whiffs these.

Breaking Kan-Ra can be tricky because he doesn’t follow the usual rules when it comes to how many hits linkers have. For example, the Whirl linker hits 2 times for a light, 4 times for a medium and 6 times for a heavy. The Spike hits 2 times for a light, 3 times for a medium and 4 times for a heavy. Swarm linkers hit like normal.

I don’t know if you spend a lot of time in the lab, but if you feel so lost that you don’t know what to do where, sparring in training mode with a dummy can help get used to it. Also, obviously, to lab out what you can do against moves or setups that give you headaches.

Finally, i would advise to take time in training mode to learn how to utilize your instinct AND to force yourself to use it on your first lifebar. Yes, Last Breath is a pretty good ability, but speed-boosted TJ is a absolute friggin’ monster and is far too good of an ability to pass up for 20% extra health at the end of a match and half of a speed boost with Last Breath. If you’re activating it close to soon as you are able, and you don’t take too much damage before it’s spent, you will get another bar of instinct before the match is over. Use that time to decide if you want to pop instinct for a second time, or not to and use Last Breath to have a small comeback factor.

6 Likes

General housekeeping:

  • Yes, swarms dissipate upon being hit by an active hitbox. This is how most of the cast (who don’t have projectiles or a meterless projectile-invincible move like roll) gets around them in neutral
  • If Kan-Ra does not have sand out, he has NO reversal. The only time he gets the sandsplode that sits in place is in instinct, because his instinct trait is to always act as if he has sand directly under him.
  • The recovery of an action isn’t the only thing that matters. Even if roll recovers faster than TJ’s forward dash, I’m reasonably sure that it overall takes longer. It certainly has its uses (moves faster/further than his dash, is projectile invincible), but be wary of just rolling in at people - it’s not so fast that a good player won’t destroy you for trying it a lot. Roll is punishable, and you forget/ignore that at your peril.

From the matches:

  • Don’t back away from Kan-Ra at round start or after you’ve knocked him down. Others have covered why.
  • If Kan is standing over you and places a scarab, you need to wake up blocking
  • Use your instinct twice per fight. There is no reason to ever die in the first round without popping it.
  • Powerline does not beat scarabs sitting freely at midscreen. They hit enough times to blow through his armor.
  • Don’t forget that roll can be hit. A better Kan-Ra would’ve been camping your rolls with bandage normals or command grabs.
  • You had generally solid combo conversions. Just want to make sure you’re getting those 100% of the time, instead of 80%
  • I actually don’t dislike the counter break attempt. He broke or attempted to break every other tremor that you did, so I don’t think it was a bad bet to make where you did it.
  • Use tremor when at fullscreen to knock down the opponent and approach. That single move would have changed literally the entire rythymn of this fight.

If you have any questions behind the particulars of any of this advice let me know. Hope it helps :+1:t5:

4 Likes

Thanks for all your advice.
I saw many videos and guides about TJ and they all say that I shouldnt foward Dash(after a knockdown is ok to catch up your opponent). So I will just need to work on my timing with rolls powerline and walking.
I know TJ loves cuddling so he must stay on opponent but the only buttons that I realised that work are Jab for punish and maybe MP>HP if they whiff.
I actually dont know how to put pressure and use the blockstrings to My advantage.
And I see every other point you made and I will work on it.

Edit: These tips made lose all my matches working on them today. I will just wont get it right.
I mean EVERY match. Is Jago easier to master than TJ?

1 Like

What are you doing exactly to make you lose? These tips won’t work instantly

Also yes, Jago is a lot easier since he is the jack of all trades in this game.

You don’t just take ideas and go do them and win. You have to apply them properly. You know how long I sucked until I got to where I am and still suck in comparison to tourney players? It takes a while, instant gratification is what you’re looking for it seems. You need a bit more time, you need to learn a little bit more about what your character can and cannot do against certain characters. I’ll beat most casual players but evo players walk all over me. You have to grind it out a bit. Playing is the only way to get better.

1 Like

Yeah it was like every thing I did was wrong. Tried to mix combos,put pressure get close with other approches but its just wont work. A button masher will still get the break 30% of the time and he will punish my plan without even thinking.
So im here wondering why should I spend time in lab and in forums when i just turn combo assist on and mash different buttons? I mean i wont get to high level play. But I wont get even bothered to train and stuff. I just picked the wrong character;) I should have picked another one. Anyway I wanna thank you all for your tips. I may get better and come back to get even MORE better. But in the meantime I will just chill and try Jago.

@MikeAtzem

Maybe this will offer you some reference. A conversation i had in this very thread a long while ago after i posted some replays for analysis, which i might do again soon. Anyway, I’d posted another set with me vs another forum user in the hopes of assisting the other user, not myself.

1 Like

Don’t expect instant victories however. Jago is only simplier to understand but he still needs to be learnt to be effective

1 Like

He’s a lot more involved than people give him credit for, that’s for sure.

1 Like