Thanks Infil. 
With regards to Rico, I feel like Iāve seen him streaming KI off and on for the past few weeks or so.
All in all I think you played well. Thoughts below:
- Utterly ignore Ricoās mid-set complaints on reversals here. He was pressing plus frame buttons and consistently expecting you to hold the plus frames. Thatās on him if never figures out that he canāt just mash cr.MP and bully you with fake pressure. Ditto the āreversal slide!?ā outburst. That was the perfect response to Gargos floating above your head in the corner with two minions in front of you. You cleared the corner, tagged both minions, and Gargos canāt do anything about it 99.5% of the time. If he actually baited you on most of your reversals heād have a point, but he didnāt. When he adapts to your reversals, then you play more āsolid.ā Until that moment, blow him up if he refuses to respect the option.
- I really donāt like your tendency to back off against characters that zone better than you do. Gargos does just fine against Omen in the neutral IMO, so it bugs me to see you give up space to chuck rashas when you could sit on top of him and bully him instead. This is something I saw in your set with Zip as well today. Donāt give up space when Omen gets in - as good as he is in the neutral, heās also good right on top of you. Donāt give up space only to get mauled trying to dodge projectiles and limbs getting back in.
- I think youād be served really well to learn delayed AD/linker timings. Youāve gotten (much!) better about capitalizing on lockouts, but you still wind up giving up damage in a lot of scenarios because youāve committed prematurely to an ender. If you can get delayed timings down, this will give you an extra few frames to confirm lockouts into big damage, particularly after your resets.
- I feel like donkey kick (jump+HK?) should be useful in this MU, no? A lot of times Gargos is floating right up there alongside you, and because of that you should be looking to air-to-air him at least a moderate amount of the time. The hitbox on the normal is big, it comes out crazy fast, and it does a chunk of damage. As a bonus, even if Gargos stays grounded, heās big enough that you can still press the button and not have to worry about it whiffing.
- Iād recommend learning to break HP manual on reaction. Itās crazy slow, so no reason to give that to him and then guess on a light linker IMO.
- I donāt like you popping shadow rasha when fullscreen. At that range you put stuff on the screen, but I feel like you canāt actually get much space off it a lot of times. I feel like that meter would be better spent on a fullscreen slide->shadow form or shadow form resets or something. There are spaces where it is good, but clear across the map doesnāt seem very strong to me. Could be wrong about this one, but thatās just the sense I got from this set and the Zip one.
- You have to capitalize into full combo every time a minion screws up Gargosā stuff. Always be ready for it happening, and always get the confirm on it. Gargos with minions is too scary to give up the few chances when they work against him.
Bonus from your set against Zip:
- down+HP in neutral against a Glacius jumping at mid-screen - itās pretty doable to watch his arc and get a feel for when heād want to put the limb out there. Just putting your AA out will start to force him to keep his hands to himself, even if you donāt time it right super often.
All in all I think you played the Gargos MU well. I think you just really needed to challenge Gargos floats - I really feel like Omen should be able to kick him clear out of the sky when you two are up there together.
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I know them but donāt apply them in practice. Iām more likely to use it during the round end to drain instinct time.
I feel like in the gargos match up this is a viable option. With shadow rasha, i can make the gargos stop punching and get mid screen. In the set i got rico to stop punching and let me walk him down enough to have a chance to Get pressure going. Gargos isnt a good defensive character nor hits hard so i can afford to sacrifice that meter because i donāt need it for extended mix ups or damage.
I found it especially useful because it clears minions on the screen because gargos players are either blocking or portal punching. Its an easy way to slow down his momentum and get him off me. Full screen shadow slide is asking for a whiff punish unless i walk him down. By then he may have the meter from portal punch to refill on minions or stop my movement.
Shadow rasha is the safest way to get gargos off omen and it puts me in good position to track him down.
This is one of those things that easily do. . .but i let my anxious behavior get in the way of it. Like there were times when rico did light reckoning, and i tried to backdash it knowing i wanted to light orda shield.
I havenāt finshed watching the set but Iād like to say something. During our little set we had earlier, you never seemed to use any grab instinct cancel into combo. Idk if you simply donāt feel like its a good use of instinct or not but i just wanted to point that out.
Tbh i was off the entire set. I donāt think i had the reactions to do what i wanted. You are very good though. So i didnāt say that because i didnāt want to take away from the Set. Good stuff
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If you were off that day then im scared to see you at full potential. Hope we can play again some other time.
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Dude anytime you up for it let me know. At my best i can make @STORM179 very tilted but if I can that all the time i may actually be a better player.
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Half screen walk up throw
Kappa
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Ayo fight me kid
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@ItzTymeToDul Bruhā¦ Rico gets agitated easily, reminds me of myself. Anyways, good stuff holding your own against him - you have definitely grown man. Keep up them skills dood!
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Shoutouts to Infil for the thorough analysis and thanks again to everyone else.
I had a question regarding tech and stuffing moves with a DP against Eagles shadow slide or Sadiraās shadow blade demon, etc.
Skate showed that Jago can bait a projectile invulnerable shadow and immediately stuff it by canceling the startup of Endokuken on a freeze frame into DP. Does anyone have any suggestions how to get this out consistently or how to get a better fix on timing? @Infilament @STORM179 @ItzTymeToDul @MnTLetalis
Skip to about :30 for reference.
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With Jago, you hold the fireball. During any super freeze, you input dash, then let go of the fireball button, then input DP (all before the freeze ends). For some reason, your dash comes out but is kara-canceled immediately into DP before you move.
This doesnāt seem to work for any of Jagoās other special moves though, not even shadow DP.
My guess is that there is specific code in the game to help cancel dashes into DPs, in order to help prevent f, d, df, f + P from always being dash. The game probably lets you kara-cancel the first few frames of dash into DP so that this regular input (which you would expect is DP, and is DP in all other modern SF games) works. However, because of the way stacking inputs works during the freeze in this game, you can cancel a held fireball into a dash and then turn it into a DP. I tried doing it in neutral with no freeze (ie, hold DP, try to input f, d, df, f + P to immediately cancel into a dash, then do a DP) but I couldnāt get it to work. Maybe itās possible via tool assist. But the freeze lets you queue up all the commands in one go, so thatās why it works here.
This is cool, I didnāt know about this. Nate on twitter says other characters can do it too, but I donāt see how unless they use a different glitch.
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Well based on how you explained it shouldnāt every character with a dash cancel and a DP be able to do it? So Orchid and Aria should be good. Not sure about Raam since he has no DP motion, or Thunder since idk if his crow dash counts, same with Kimās dragon dashes. Hmmā¦ Time to hit up the lab!
Yeah it doesnāt seem to work for Aria/Orchid. Iām not sure why, their full dashes just come out.
Itās possible my explanation is wrong above but it sounds pretty logical to me. Maybe itās a Jago-specific thing and Ariaās/Orchidās dash canceled moves arenāt counted as a āregularā dash but rather a special dash where the DP buffer doesnāt apply? And they forgot to apply this to Jagoās special dash?
Could it be a matter of frames on dash speeds or with the cancel window itself. I guess maybe thatās irrelevant, though it could just be relative to Jago since he has the luxury of karaās with his endos.
Whatās most interesting about this technique is that it doesnāt seem very good. For example, if you try to bait shadow wind kick (for example), you still just get stuffed because of the priority system on shadows beating the DP hitbox (and the physical hurtbox for shadow wind kick is not close enough to cause a trade/stuff it in startup). For slightly slower shadow moves like Fulgore shadow blade dash, you either get stuffed straight up (if heās about 1/4 screen away or closer), you get hit out of the air, or your DP just misses entirely.
Soā¦ itās cool tech but if it is Jago-only, I donāt know how you would apply it in a real match. Even if someone instinct cancels in your face, point blank, you have to essentially just do raw DP and hope it works. And youād have to be charging a fireball point blank and carry the risk of doing that in the first place.
In the twitter video, Nate did DP after Kan-Ra popped instinct and did command throw (for some reason), so it managed to get through it. But I think most players are going to pick a better answer there. For example, if Jago was pressuring Kan-Ra in the corner with charged fireballs (letās say he got a knockdown and found a way to set it up risk-free), then if Kan pops instinct he should just do shadow whirl, which will always win. Itās the same response he would do even if he didnāt know about the Jago tech and it works in both cases, so I donāt really see a bunch of uses for it.
EDIT - Actually I stand corrected, DP beats shadow whirl, so thereās probably uses for it in a few very specific matchups.
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Profound sadness
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