The Replay and Analysis Thread

At that moment in time, i was just tired of playing footsies with him.

A dragon dash is 15f so you’d have to time it to catch Kim at least roughly through halfway through the dash to punish it.

Yeah, I’m still on my “only playing him for fun” with Jago. I don’t generally post too many Jago sets here because I’m not particularly interested in really leveling up with him to be honest. If it’s a fun MU where I get to use the Jago tools I find fun then I’m pretty content :joy:

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Something I wanted to touch on @FallibleJoker14. On Kim’s max damage shadow punish, it’s kinda weird for her for more than a couple reasons. Cl st HP > S. Firecracker is her max punish. But…

  • Due to it’s high startup, S. Dragon Dance does not link from a high number of normals. So S. Firecracker is generally more consistent.
  • S. Firecracker suffers from nearly zero forward movement, so max range normals like st HP/HK/MP can have opponents fall out very easily.
  • St MP hits deceptively hard and is a stronger damage normal than st HK (never understand why…) and very much comparable to st HP or cr HP.

Basically, you combine these factors and at times, it makes it tricky to always lead with a max damage shadow to start a punish. But that’s on me, anyways.

Played a set against UndeadGamer’s Aria (yeah, I didn’t know he had one either :joy:)

This character just gives me problems. Need to get better about checking some of that float pressure in neutral, as well as playing defense against blade body+instinct.

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Here’s another Jago/Sako set with myself and @CodeComplete85:

I think the theme of this set (which is just the second half of an extended set) is extreme bullying/disrespect. When you watch this one Code, I’d encourage you to think about a lot of the interactions within that context, and think about how you as Hisako can put a stop to that kind of play. Hisako has a lot of tools to enforce good behavior from the opponent - think about the options you used (and didn’t use) that influence that dynamic.

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What I’m noticing is

  • a lack of AAing
  • predictable breaks leading to counter breaks
  • as we’ve spoken about, the over-reliance on wake-up Influence
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If you have some free time, curiosity of this MU and the patience to deal with my monologue, feel free to let me know if my thoughts are alright. https://youtu.be/BvSRbDlmtAQ

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While largely true, what I’m talking about is a bit broader than those kinds of things. Perhaps a more direct way of drawing attention to it is to ask a few questions.

  • Was there anything in my play that showed fear (as in, me respecting a particular setup or option)? Conversely, were there any options available to you that I just seemed to ignore?

  • How often did I “press the issue”, offensively or defensively? Why would I play that way? What could you do to stop that?

  • Did my management of neutral differ or align with my play up close? Why might that be the case?

I got away with a metric ton of pushing buttons when negative, pushing buttons when positive, pushing buttons when it was distinctly not my turn. I challenged nearly every rekka you did. Look at my meaty options, and you’ll see that probably 80+% of them were mids/high. Compare and contrast that extremely loose defensive and offensive play with the more spacing and whiff punish-focused management of neutral, and ask yourself where and why that difference exists.

@s0undy44 - will take a look at your set and provide feedback when I get some time. :+1:t5:

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Question, do i look at this as how do I think you deal with Shin Hisako or with SWK?

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Breaking habbits are towards SWK, everything else works against Shin.

Every other shin will cross up slash like 5 times more

Played a set with @LetalisVenator:

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Finally got to watch that set @s0undy44. Shinsako gets some really effed up cross-ups on Arbiter huh? :sweat_smile:

Here’s what I noticed about the set:

  • I think you could stand to use gun in neutral more. Use it to enforce the pace in neutral that you want. I don’t think Shin should necessarily get to decide when/how neutral resolves a lot in this fight.
  • You said it yourself, but don’t jump back gun after throw->grenade. Shin’s DP has a ton of travel, and SWK repeatedly smoked you for it.
  • Related, I think that SWK really got into your head with his reversal timings. I think by game 2 or 3 you were pretty shook on his wakeup, and that’s just not where you want to be. I tend to think that you’re generally much better off eating a bunch of DP’s (if that’s what it takes) than in letting the opponent condition you really hard into respecting their wakeup. He managed to instill fear in you pretty early on, and got to get up for free a lot in this set as a result of it. Jumping back on Shin’s wakeup gains you nothing and gives him a free out on what should be pretty tough to deal with oki.
  • I think some of your counter breaker setups were too clever by half. Against a player who breaks pretty frequently like SWK, I think you’re better off trying to give him obvious baits like medium or heavy AD’s. Trying to bank on him breaking a tight juggle is unnecessarily ambitious IMO. If you want to counterbreak, I say do it with simple stuff.
  • Didn’t see much use of setup->command grab in this set (or command grabs in general really). Was that a miss, or are command grab setups not good against Shin in some way?
  • Just chip out with gun. In the match at the 22nd minute, I feel like you took a pretty big risk by getting insistent with wanting to get your chip out with other specials. Just force him to hold 2 bullets and call it a round.
  • Damage loop when the opponent locks out. No reason to waste the timer and your resources with suicide grenade links when the opponent is locked out.
  • If you have the life for it, always take the hands when Shin has that nasty up-close strike/hands mixup. You’re going to get hit by the hands eventually (or die trying to avoid it), so may as well eat your damage on the front end and not take a bunch of damage before it happens.
  • When Shin is whiffing something weird from across the screen, just shoot her with a single bullet. They do good damage when fired that way, and you’ll enforce a bit more match control in neutral with it.

It was a good set. I enjoyed watching it and learned a lot :+1:t5:

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So a few things on my end. First excuse, I filled in for someone, we decided on that like 3 days before the set and I didn’t play nor lab anything before the games, due to my irl duties. Hence I didn’t have the feel for Arby, he really plays weirdly.

Thus I forgot about his overhead, button into cmd grab, use of jump gun. My greatest mistake was not using bullets after grabs / saving grenades for reversals and going for a grenade after bounce ender, those don’t work on Sakos.

We recently played that same MU and it went 9-9. I know about the hands mentality, I was loud about it for a long time, I’m just bad.

I don’t think grenade manuals are a bad thing, I messed up on damage only once.

Thank You for your feedback, I appreciate the effort, perseverance to go through my monologue.

If You want to play an Arby vs Hisako set in the nearest future, let me know, I want to get better.

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I mean when you have an overshield, so smash a grenade on yourself and then do a link as they stagger. It’s a good way to bait lockouts, but is lower damage compared to standard damage loop. Pretty sure I saw it more than once during a lockout, but just so long as you know to maximize it’s fine. I feel like a lot of games (for everyone) often hinge on those little optimizations. A lot of times the gap isn’t some big decision or knowledge hole - it’s just in the small ways in which one player doesn’t fully take advantage of some of the simpler opportunities in the match.

And here’s another set with @LetalisVenator. Happier with my defense in this one (which is ironic because I probably got hit more), but some iffy decision-making here and there for whatever reason. Either way pretty happy with how I handled the fight, but still a lot of opportunity for improvement in picking moments to approach and adapting my offensive routes to the defensive tendencies that have been displayed.

So yeah, feel free to critique :+1:t5:

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“I’ve come back to complete the training”

I largely stopped playing Hisako for a while, to flush out some of my “flowcharty” muscle memory, get out of my passive strategy of “wait for something -7 or worse”, and learn some other aspects of the game (what it’s like to have a DP or a backdash that’s actually worth using).

I’ve gained a fresh perspective by playing another grappler with different ways of punishing different fear responses (Triplax instead of cr.MP, Sammamish instead of TK ORZ, etc) and other chars. When I’m feeling comfy with my Sako inputs again, I’ll be back with a set to analyze.

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@STORM179 I watched your set.
I found it funny that you didn’t do much cmd grab resets at the beginning of the set.
You have not represented shadow counter at all, sat on 2 bars for some time. Maybe you wanted that.
I can’t say much apart from maybe focus on spending your meter.

Are you talking about the Letalis set? I tend not to reset in general so long as I think I can come by my damage “honestly”, and resets against Aganos in particular are pretty dangerous if you’re wrong. Letalis did a good job avoiding them in our previous suite of matches, so I wasn’t eager to give him free punish opportunities when I thought I could just outplay him within the combo game. Getting returned to neutral if the opponent breaks isn’t the worst thing in the world.

Sako’s shadow counter is full-stop worthless against Aganos unless he’s chunkless or you shadow counter something very specific. Normally he’ll just soak the hit and be able to block and/or punish you for having the temerity to try. Shadow influence is similarly difficult to use, simply because Aganos should be spending nearly all his time in neutral putting out hitboxes that will tag any grounded approach. This isn’t a fight where Hisako gets to use her meter freely - most non-combo uses for it are very situational, and require that the Aganos player make a mistake.

The issue here is that you are one of the best players, and there are no basics I can point out. Shadow countering either Hisako or Aganos is a really hard thing to do, but it isn’t impossible, there are rare occasions to do that.

I just want to tell, there is this small one thing you can consider.