The polishing KI issue

THE PROBLEM:

One of the bigger complaints over the years tends to revolve around the idea of wanting previously completed content polished or upgraded a bit, or wanting to add content that MS / IG simply can’t charge money for.

Personally, I don’t think a developer should have to work on content they can’t charge for, yet I still find myself wanting certain things fixed or upgraded.

So how do we bridge the gap?


MY SOLUTION:

-It’d be great if they could do a survey and get feedback from fans on what our priorities are in terms of polish. Have us give feedback on level of importance, suggestions on what we’d like to see and what not.

-Once they have that info, I’d like to see them tie polish/fixes/upgrades to the next two characters. Give us $5, $10 and $20 options.

-$5 gets you the next character. Anything above that is optional and goes toward the upgrade pool.

-Give us a list of polish goals and tell us what we have to reach in order for the team to do those things. For example, $75K gets Orchid’s face, hair, retro face, retro hair and retro outfit and accessories redone. $80K gets Sabrewulf a new retro, $85K gets Fulgore a new retro, $90K gets three more colors for Omen and three more sets of accessories and so on.

-People that don’t buy the character and/or don’t want to pay for cosmetic upgrades don’t have to, but while they’ll never get the character, they have to wait six months before they can download the upgraded stuff, additional stuff, etc.

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Sorry for the double post, but I thought that this thread might look a little less threatening if I broke it up in to multiple posts.

Anyways, here are some upgrades/polishes I’d suggest:

-Sabrewulf retro
-Orchid’s face and hair
-Orchid retro face, hair and outfit
-Sadira hair
-Sadira retro face
-Fulgore retro
-Shago accessories
-Shago retro
-Shago retro accessories
-Maya retro hair
-Omen retro
-Omen accessories
-Omen full color list
-Omen full accessory list
-Hisako hair
-Kim Wu face and hair
-Kim Wu accessories
-Kim Wu retro face and hair
-Tusk face and hair
-Mira hair
-Kilgore full accessories
-Upgraded Pre-match “fight on” screen
-Upgraded combo fonts
-Toggle for shadow move color
-More announcer voices
-Color option for menus

If you have other suggestions, feel free to post them.

It’d be great if they could find a way to make everyone happy by giving people what they’ve been asking for, while at the same time not having to do it for free.

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I like the idea.

The inclusion of specifics almost dooms this thread to a shitshow. You said “Orchid retro” - gloves off, game on.

Kudos though.

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The problem is, some people like the things that you might consider unpolished because they were conscious design decisions. Adding stuff like accessories is always welcome though.

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Yeah I don’t mean to go in that direction lol, but you’re probably right. FWIW, I’m not trying to have a debate about the specific ideas and what needs to be upgraded visually. I know that’s a one way ticket in to the tall grass.

I’d just like to have a coherent conversation with people about how we can get certain aspects polished.

How do we get them to look back at stuff and upgrade it when developers rightly prefer the idea of looking forward and putting out content they can charge for? I feel like it’s a problem worth solving, so hopefully this doesn’t devolve in to a conversation about butt cheeks lol.

That’s true, so maybe the solution could be creating a toggle (I’m sure that’s the devs favorite word)between old and new, or simply adding many of the changes as new skins and use the new(ish) ability to move from one column of choices on the select screen to the next and have an upgrade column? Like if you love Sabrewulf looking like a drowned rat in his retro (lol sorry), maybe they keep that in there, but maybe they also add in “Retro 2” a different column that gives us a retro Wulf that many fans have been asking for since season one?

I agree that it’s not a good idea to take options away from people. I like the way you’re thinking here. So maybe the solution is that they don’t take those options away, but rather add to them? Maybe they could even let players choose which one they want for the default column as well.

I dunno. I’m just spitballing ideas here. Many of the things I posted in my second comment were things that have been suggested by multiple people on multiple occasions. It’d be nice if MS could finally answer those requests with something positive in a way that could hopefully make everyone happy. Not just those that want the stuff or those that have to make it, but hose that like certain things the way they are.

Thanks for the comment! I didn’t really consider that point of view and I absolutely should have. Maybe an even better idea came out because of it. :slight_smile:

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eeee, lets not get overboard with giving IG money on everything okay?

I don’t want to give them money for everything.

I’m talking about giving people an option. People have been complaining about parts of the polish stuff for years now. This could be a way to help solve that in a way that doesn’t involve IG having to do free work, which some of the more entitled fans seem to think is plausible when it’s not, or fans being forced to pay for stuff that MS shouldn’t and wouldn’t realistically charge money for.

It allows them to revisit some stuff while still being able to look forward. To me, packaging that stuff as an optional purchase with a character seems like a happy medium. A win / win. If you disagree though, that’s fine.

I would of loved the idea of a re-polishing phase for KI to fix a lot of the stuff you listed however I’m not a fan of just throwing money at them to fix stuff and quite frankly at this point seems kind of a waste of time considering a sequel could be on the horizon. Now if S3 for sure is the end of KI and they will just keep adding content then by all means find the time to go back polish.

Personally S3 could of been the season to do this but all of their money and resources went into shadow lords a mode I haven’t even opened up the menu for because I have no interest.

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While it’s entirely possible that you know something I don’t in this specific regard, I’m throwing this idea out there under the assumption that they’re still working on this game either in the form of continuous content going forward or a 4th season.

If that’s not the case, and they’re moving on to new game, then yeah, I wouldn’t be suggesting this idea.

It’s a fun mode, you should check it out.

As for where they put their money and resources, I know at least some of that went to the stage relighting, which was more or less going back and polishing existing content (though I have no doubt it was a MUCH more complicated process than the word “polish” implies).

As far as going back, they also changed the shadow color/animation and added to the level 4 ender.
They also have a tendency to continually fix bugs and rebalance characters, give them new moves, instinct changes, etc. So it’s not like they’re only looking forward.

I’d just like that idea of upgrading things, perfecting things, polishing things, etc to extend to other parts that a lot of fans have been asking after for years. At the same time, I don’t think they should just do all of this out of the kindness of their hearts.

So yeah, assuming this KI isn’t coming to an end… It’d be great if this could happen in a way that makes everyone happy. The option to contribute toward it on top of getting a character seems like a nice option to me.

Well to be fair Kim Wu was shown off at world cup a whole 3 months before S3 launched, they could of chosen to re-do her face then after the backlash so I’m just gonna assume they think it looks fine. This interview is like super old now but in it Adam said they would love to go back and re-do stuff like costume etc so who knows if plans have changed since then or not.


I think it’s at 1:05:20

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Shadow lords is great. Its no Dark Souls… but I thought I would hate it and once I got to playing it became really interesting and fun. Especially now that they have Shadows involved to make the opponents much more diverse from the typical AI. I like to play it long enough to unlock rewards plus maybe complete 1 turn each day before I head into ranked/ Exhibition.

Those that havnet even given it a fir chance are missing out and quite honestly being a bit stubborn because ’ It isn’t what they wanted out of their favorite game."
.#NotmyKI LOLOLOL

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Yeah I saw that tweet before when he posted it. That honestly made me try and reconsider the whole idea of how to make something like this make sense for all parties involved.

Anyways, “adds nothing” is subjective. Does it add quantity to the game? Technically no, unless you’re doing the revisions as new skins. Even then, the answer is probably no.

From a quality standpoint though? I hate to use the loaded term “people” and speak for anyone else, but many have brought these issues up over the years and most of the time, there tends to be a general sentiment formed that’s at least “it’d be great if they could.” To me, that’s reason enough to look in tobit more, so I’m just trying to propose a solution that everyone can maybe live with.

Because Keits is right. This stuff costs time and money to make. I’m not naive enough to think that they should go back and polish appearance stuff for free.

But what if you could package some of these upgrades / redos with new content like the next two characters? Give people the choice to pay $5 or $10 more and lay out what reaching each milestone would give players. Or maybe you forego milestones and just say “for $20, you get both characters and all that stuff above.”

I don’t know what calculations would make sense from their perspective, but I’d have to think that some of this, in some way, and perhaps all of it, over the long haul, might be feasible.

You have spirit, but I think the sooner people get this idea of direct crowdfunding of the development budget out of their heads, the better. It’s a publicity nightmare that I don’t think it’s worth any major publisher wading into, you may be disappointed to see how little your crowdsourced funds buy, plenty of people will be disappointed when the “improvements” aren’t thong leotard Orchid, and they may not easily be able to allocate people to this kind of work without taking them off other features anyway, even if they did have the money.

More likely I think we’ll either see a 4K Scorpio remaster that’ll swoop through and address the kinds of things on your list in ways Microsoft sees fit to, as a general value-add to boost sales/awareness (and maybe sell the game to us all over again?), or this stuff will mostly go untouched, with maybe touch-ups being done here and there if people with those skills have gaps in their schedules or something.

To be fair, Dave Lang is on record saying that a huge amount of work went into the PC port, which is something you really championed. (For which, thanks, I guess – it’s the main version I use now and it turned out really good.)

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As much as I like you idea, and in am not bashing you at all, but I see to many problems with this kind of setup.

People would start complaining within days of donating. Here would’ve a list of the more common ones.

“It has been 5 days, why isn’t “x” fixed”
" I donates 3 times because I thought “x” would get fixed first"
“why did “x” character get a new color when Omen only has 6"
” I donated to get Shadow Jago accessories, and not so Kilgore could have accessories.
“I think the lighting should be fixes before Kim’s face”
“Kim’s face is fine, I want Omen accessories”
" I donated alot more than anyone else, so what I want should come first"

Again it is not to bash your idea. I think it is a great idea, but I see it going horribly wrong if it was really done.

Thanks! Much appreciated.

See, I don’t really look at it as crowd funding though. I’m not talking about a “made to order” / “here’s my money, now here’s what I want you to do” type of thing. I’m talking about recognizing the reality of the fact that these people have to get paid to work their jobs, and a lot of these complaints, which pop up again and again over the last few years, are an inelegant problem that not real, easy solution fits.

But that doesn’t mean we shouldn’t talk about solutions. If anyone else has any better ideas or cleaner ideas or simply other ideas, I’d love to hear them. That’s not me saying that no one can oppose this without having a better solution either. I get that the idea I have falls short of flawless. I’m just hoping that maybe some brainstorming could bring something workable to light.

It depends on how it’s framed. If it’s “give us more money and we’ll fix stuff,” then yeah, I think that’s a problem. Likely a substantial one.

But if they were to maybe sell substantial packs of “refurbished skins” for characters, or perhaps a more desirable word, and simply pack them in with a new character, maybe add a few more requested items like a few more colors for Omen, a single accessory pack for Shago, perhaps a new combo font you can switch to… maybe you call the whole thing “The Eagle Pack” and you can justify selling it for a little more than the standard Eagle character, just so long as people have the option to not buy that if they simply want the character and they see what they’re getting up front.

And that’s certainly a possibility as well. So if all that stuff I listed up there pushes the price over what most people would consider reasonable, then maybe this stuff is doled out more slowly over time.

Thing is, they’ve sold entire season’s worth of content (8-9 characters, each with 9+ colors, multiple sets of accessories, game modes, story content etc and they’ve charged what, $30 to $40?

Now, obviously there’s a huge difference between MS funded and crowd funded. However, I’d think it’s relatively safe to assume that MS makes money off of this game, at least to the point where they’re able to sell so much content for a budget price.

If you reduce the work needed by such a substantial amount, how much can they sell the items in a pack for and still be able to get the work done and still make a profit? We don’t have that answer, but there is one more thing to consider…

Kilgore is presumably not crowd funded. He’s being paid for individually at a cost of $5. Same goes for the $5 skin packs that they’ve released so far. If they can do this and charge for it, why can’t they also give us these other things and charge for it if it’s technically new content as I’m trying to position it as being? Why is this other stuff not crowd funded but the stuff I’m talking about is?

Maybe I’m talking out of both sides of my mouth and I definitely don’t intend to do that, but I’m trying to look at this as a way of fixing / upgrading current content whereby they get paid and we get what we want. If that can be done along the same lines as other items released outside of the season windows, then that’s something I want to explore.

I think they’ve been pretty clear on Orchid and Thunder from the beginning. We’re not getting those outfits. If they feel the need to reiterate that, then they can do so (perhaps) by showing mock ups or pictures to people and basically saying “this is what you’d get. If this makes you want to buy the pack, then that’s great. But this is what you’d get.”

I’m sure you’ll see some thong fans or caricature Thunder fans come out of the woodwork as they do every so often, but I’d have to think that more fans would simply be happy to get the upgraded stuff than would be upset that their unrealistic expectations aren’t being met.

That’s entirely possible. Obviously, all of what I’m talking about here hinges on the idea that they would be able to allocate people for this. If that’s simply not possible, then sure, the whole idea is moot regardless.

If that happens, I’d be first in line so long as all of my unlocked content and progress carries over to the next version. Again, if that’s their intention, then this idea’s moot. I’m simply proposing the without the knowledge of employee availability or any Scorpio remaster. I’m just throwing out something here based on the information that I have at this moment in time. If there’s other things at work that make this idea less than feasible or simply moot, that’s obviously fine. Just thought I’d throw it out there. :slight_smile:

No I don’t take it as bashing, no problem man! :slight_smile:

I think that a lot of these issues you’re talking about come down to messaging. If MS / IG can tell us what’s in each pack specifically, and when that pack will drop (ie what month), then if anything, I could see people saying more stuff like “ugh, I hope they get to Fulgore’s retro soon” or sure, maybe questioning why one thing is getting attention over their thing or some other thing or whatever.

But really, that more or less falls in to the category of “you can’t please everyone.” If anything, I’d hope that people would at least be satisfied in the idea that they’re trying to go back and make some things better that people have been complaining about. Hopefully, eventually, your specific issue with a character would get fixed, but even if it’s not… Again, you can’t please everyone.

These complaints have been on the boards at various points for years, so what’s the worst that happens? A fraction of that base continues complaining? Maybe other people start complaining because something still doesn’t look right or whatever? Well, okay fine. That’s kinda just the nature of the internet, comment boards and fandom.

Hopefully it’s more a matter of maybe people being pleased by the effort for them to address this stuff, even if specific things don’t get addressed. Maybe that’s being too optimistic.

Regardless, I’d rather see them try and let a few people complain about this or that (as people will honestly do no matter what) then for them to throw up their hands and say “no, we can’t do this because Buttstar6969 still doesn’t like Tusk’s face and TeArDrOp9696 is still complaining that there aren’t enough Omen colors. Shut it down. Shut it all down.”

If people can’t accept the fact that their priority might not be the team’s priority, then that’s on them. If they get so angry that they leave the game over it, again, that’s an unreasonable response to something that’s supposed to be good. I’d have to think that you’d please more fans in the long run by giving them something they’d want then you’d anger by ignoring their every want and need. I tend to think that’s just game development in general.

But again, maybe that’s just me being optimistic.

Hmm, first time seeing this tweet.

It’s rather strange Keits would say this considering they invested a lot to re-do the lighting on all the stages which arguably doesn’t make money or add anything to the game either. Really it all just depends on what their plans are going forward; is S3 the final version of KI or are they working on a sequel? If no sequel is in the works then it absolutely makes since to enhance the current version of the game going forward overtime. Orchid’s retro is one of the worst looking things I’ve ever seen visually in the game in my opinion and it’s even missing outlines and textures lol.

Retro costumes are part of the Ultra Pack for s1 which people definitively payed money for, and the people were given a piece of crap.

You are absolutely right about this because honestly it slipped my mind. The PC port was a huge endeavor I’m sure, and I’m glad they did it and I appreciate this version because it’s amazing!

Again, I’m not a fan of paying more money to fix things that people have already paid for; I’d much rather them just sell us new costumes instead of giving them money to fix the old stuff like Orchid’s or Wulfs retros. I’ve gone on record (and I’m sure many others) of saying that if they put Orchid’s real KI2 retro costume in the game I would pay $15 for it. Heroes of the Storm puts out what they call Legendary Skins and they sell for $15 and I buy every single one of them. If you give the people what they want they will pay money for it, simple as that; they’ve given us enough surveys at this point to know what we want.

So then you’re okay with all of the appearance flaws / issues. Or at least okay enough, because they’re not going to do it for free.

Whether it’s part of a season 4 polish like the stages got in the season 3 relighting or the idea I proposed or something else, they need to be paid for their work.

As far as new costumes, you’re either putting new clothes on characters and covering their issues, or you’re not covering their issues and well, in that case, you’re just talking about wanting something that’s not really germane to this thread topic. I want new outfits for characters too and they’re starting to sell those. I’d like to see them find a way to monetize fixing / updating that’s fair to us the players as well as the developer.

Maybe you put some new stuff in the pack that people might want to purchase like a new announcer voice, a new accessory pack for Omen… mix some fixes with some new content. Again, just spitballing.

Ah no plz. C’mon man. For just one thread, can we not go down that “you just want Orchid’s butt” / “no it’s about authenticity” road? Just one thread?

True, and again, I want more skins, costumes, accessories, etc too. But I also want them to be able to upgrade some stuff that maybe didn’t turn out quite as well. I don’t think you can only have one or the other. Maybe one delays the other.

Anyways, they haven’t done a survey about fixing stuff, so in this regard, maybe there’s not as much obvious data. So maybe they find out what’s most important in this regard and how important it is and maybe that results in some upgrade packs that, again, come with some new goodies as well so people don’t feel like they’re just paying for the same stuff twice.

Honestly, this stuff has come up a million times. Why not try and find a way to finally fix some of this stuff? I love this game, but there are things here and there that could look better.

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dear oh dear.
Why do you insist on bringing this up as the reason for the costume.
Forget about her butt for ONE GOSH SECOND!
KI1 Orchid is in the game, KI2 Orchid is not. THEY ARE TWO DIFFERENT COSTUMES!
Not only does the one we have in the game look like trash, it’s a mismatch of the two…

Since I do not want them to go back and fix it, just bring spend that time making her KI2 outfit and spend more than 5 seconds making it so it looks good. Even if they did fix the Ki1 version to look the way it should I would perfectly content with it.

Orchid Retro

All we can do is wait. :thumbsup: