s.HK, stagger, s.HK, stagger = too good, IMO

Can’t block in time? Dude, hold block before wake-up, unless you’re gonna wake-up with something. This is day one shxt.

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I do and it doesn’t work half the time. I blame rollback lag for this in particular, though.

Blame whatever you want. You should be blaming your own poor defensive habits, and working to improve them. If lag is so bad that almost a full second of holding block doesn’t register, your problem isn’t in the game, it’s with your hardware.

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Then it’s either lag or bugged because shadow kryll rush is projectile invincible.

And what’s the problem of that? There ia not an standard about that. Hisako can Hp into qcf p and takes some time to get to a breaking point, and its ok.

If you are getting hit by HK, then a 16%damage setup seems fair to me

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:slight_smile:

It’s not the hardware. I play online games all of the time with no issue. This game has artificial limitations in place depending on your connection speed - it’s also why many people get auto-kicked out of lobbies (some even with good connections). In any case, that’s getting off-topic.

Also for the record, Kan-Ra is not that good against Raam. It’s a loopsided match: who gets momentum is hard to stop

Hell, if we’re talking about a long time before a break point that Geek can relate to, what about Aganos EX Payload>H Payload>H Payload>etc.?

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For whatever reason, I have a distinct impression of breaking Kan-Ra st.HK’s with some regularity. I’m actually kinda belligerent about them. I guess I’ll assume my recollection of breaking them is off of manuals post dive-kick or something, though I could have sworn I’d broken st.HK->st.HK before :confused:

In general though, no, not all staggers are openers, and it’s not super uncommon for stagger->stagger->command grab unbreakable strings to be a thing. TJ can do it, Hisako can do it in instinct, Kan can do it (even if st.HK->st.HK were breakable, he could still do back+HP->st.HK->command grab), Gargos probably can, etc. Normal grabs out of staggers are techable, but command grabs are basically never breakable unless it’s an opener->ender situation, so I don’t think that’s the right answer at all.

There’s a touch of truth to the people saying that you probably shouldn’t be getting tagged by Kan-Ra’s st.HK in the first place. It’s not a fast button, so if you get hit by it you were probably pressing buttons (or trying to armor through something) when you shouldn’t have been. For comparison’s sake, note that Kan isn’t getting too much out of the string unless he’s doing the shadow spike ender version. Most of the cast can pretty easily tag you for 16% or more with heavy normal->shadow (Hisako gets something close to that raw actually). And again, you kind of walked into it anyway if you’re getting hit by raw st.HK’s. Either he frame trapped the bejeezus out of you, or you just got caught trying to avoid clutch. In either case, Kan is getting a pretty fair upfront damage benefit IMO.

And Aria’s grenade juggles were made breakable because they were silly and degenerate. Her vortex is way too potent to be able to stack on free unbreakable and potential damage to make her next cashout hit even harder. There was literally no reason to ever not do them, and in general those kinds of unthinking setups have been removed from the game.

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I’ve seen him clearly hit me with 1 projectile using Omen, which gets ignored by kryll shield, but then I’d get hit by a 2nd during the same kryll shield, and put into hit stun, which he uses to then open me up. I’ll see if I can get a clip or 2…

Honestly, I feel like he’s trying to push buttons with Armor, thinking he has the advantage.

And Kan-Ra is like

“Nah Son, sit down”

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Laughs in omen

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And what @MDMMORNING said is very true - if you’re getting hit by st.HK on your wakeup, then that is very much your own fault (or to the credit of your opponent’s conditioning). It’s no different than any other character’s meaty/command grab mixup on your wakeup, and the unbreakable damage you get hit by there is very analogous to getting hit by the same mixup from any other grappler in KI.

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You keep saying Kryll shield, by this do you mean the charged up hit that you can dash out of or the running grab Kryll Rush? If it is the former then when you let go of the charge to attack you lose the Kryll shield properties unless it is fully charged, so during this time a projectile can hit you.

I’m kind of confused what the problem here is supposed to be? He gets a fair chunk of unbreakable damage but loses the opportunity to combo, and it often won’t properly juggle into the curse which means to get the full benefit from his meter you have to make the tail sting hit.

If you were playing Raam, you could always do the same with your own meaty stand HK stagger into command grab. 20% midscreen, 26% in the corner, and 24%/32% with kryll.

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Just to clarify game mechanics, stagger != opener. They are separate things. Shago’s axe kick is an opener, meaning it triggers the combo engine (axe kick, normal xx special move triggers the linker version, meaning the combo engine is active), and hits after it become breakable as if they were manuals. Same with Tusk’s sword staggers (now, wasn’t the case at S3 launch).

But lots of characters have staggers that aren’t openers, including Gargos, TJ, Hisako, Sabrewulf, Kan-Ra, etc. They are basically just normals with tons of hit stun and they won’t trigger the combo engine until you do a move that counts as an opener, or you do 3 separate moves. Doing a stagger move, then normal xx special gives the neutral version of the special instead of the linker version.

I was going to make a comment on why the Kan thing doesn’t seem like that big of a deal, but then I read somewhere in the thread that “wake up block often doesn’t come out” and I think I’d rather go grab a coffee.

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Nah, it’s all good. You gave me the kind of explanation I was looking for. Still, I wish stagger moves were more universal in how they operate. For example, I think a stagger move should always be considered an opener for the purposes of starting combos, not some are and some aren’t…

In any case, I did another set with @SlenderCashew50, and did much better on wakeup this time around, despite my earlier complaints (although I’m still getting hit by it more than I would like). Play his kan-Ra some time and let me know how you fair - I’m sure he’d be happy to show you… :wink:

I admit, though, that I really was rather salty over it, but losing to the same guy with the same characters for 3 days straight will do that to just about anyone, I’m sure… :sweat_smile:

Also, @MBABanemobius, I don’t get those 2 moves confused, but I do admit to often confusing kryll shield for emergence and vice versa from time to time. As for the hold on kryll shield, I have been holding it long enough. I think it has more to do with startup or something earlier in the move… Is there a moment during his kryll moves where he’s vulnerable or where it "activates?’

Good news, BTW - I finally got Raam to lvl. 50. :slight_smile:

Thank you for clarifying the stagger != opener thing. I have been a little confused on that since the early S3 Tusk change - I guess I had gotten the impression that it wasn’t just Tusk, but a universal change.

When you finish your coffee, would you mind clarifying one other point? Seriously, finish your coffee. I couldn’t live with myself knowing my stupid questions stood between a man and his quiet enjoyment of a hot cup of joe.

Regarding the “3-hit rule” - is it the 3rd hit, or the “first hit after the third” that becomes breakable? (I use the awkward phrasing to include grabs, as they aren’t necessarily hits)

It’s ON the 3rd consecutive attack (NOT hits, but attacks) that hits you. :wink:

When SlenderCashiew hit me with his s.HK 3x in a row, I was always able to break it on the 3rd attack. :slight_smile:

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