Make Cinder’s potential damage be treated as real damage so the opponent has to actually fight instead of long range zoning. This would solve the issue of people winning by staying far out and just spamming projectiles (Riptor players are doing this with 3p and hitconfirming for setups that Cinder can’t punish with light fireflash). Either have the damage treated as real health that drains, or have a way for Cinder to cash out damage on a well-deserving full screen spammer.
I understand that not all matchup are even, but Cinder has some that you might as well not fight (Jago, Shago, Riptor to name but 3).
I’d like to hear thoughts on alternative buffs as well, as I’m guessing this wouldn’t be the only dolution.
Edit: Rqing is not a alid option at all mid-match, removed reference. Also, I realise that the grind to get this achievement has somewhat skewed my train of thought, something I am not a fan of but am aware that it’s happened with these achievements before. Having to win 20 ranked matches with a character is mindnumbing , especially with you have what I would personally consider to be the most frustrating 6 left (TJ, Maya, Kan-Ra, Cinder, Aria and Rash) still to win with.
Any advice/people willing to practice is much appreciated.
Cinder’s approaches are based on sticking an opponent with pyre bombs and using them to lock the opponent down. Very few characters are actually capable of zoning him out actually - he’s able to fly over most attempts to do so, and he can toss out pyre bombs pretty fast and from all angles.
Since when does Cinder have a problem with zoners? Just dodge and trailblaze your way in and put bombs on them to cover you. Or you could get fired up and use heavy inferno which goes 3/4’s of the screen.
Cinder can actually handle Shago and Riptor’s zoning pretty well. He already has a Shadow confirm that works from 3/4’s of the screen away. On top of that, if they block Inferno, they practically build up a Level 4’s worth of potential damage on their health bar.
TIP: Fission can beat Jago’s charged fireballs. I didn’t know that until recently.
By beat, do you mean on connect they vanish completely? If so, this is very useful advice but I await your clarification.
I’ve fought players who will sit their using moves that fan the flames, the trouble is I have no way of cashing out the damage as they either rush me with a move that I can’t easily punish (Jago windkick into jump/backdash that I don’t think even fireflash will be fast enough to catch without risk of being dped), or just kill me with chip/overhead that sometimes I won’t even see coming due to trying to actually anti-air. Could just be that I’m really bad with Cinder even though I kind of know the theory.
Just want to throw this in in case you don’t know, but have you tried dodging fireball spam when you can’t see? It’s very difficult. I agree, not impossible, but very difficult especially with characters like Shago. I try and trailblaze my way in as you suggest, but I keep getting hit by the next fireball that is launched at me normally. Maybe I just need the practice against a willing/helpful opponent in exhibition.
Before, I’d have agreed with you. However, the players I’m currently fighting in ranked, if I stick them, just keep sitting back and blocking until either I detonate thinking they’re going to move or I try and approach and they just zone. Alternatively, they’ll (if stuck) just jump around so that the pyro will have little to no impact on them (a thunder I fought recently just basically did that and won by lucky hit confirm into combo essentially)
And to the second thing, that’s where your planning comes in. If you know they’re the type of player to let the flame run and keep doing their moves, let them. If you’re not confident that the risks you’re taking aren’t working, then don’t do them. Let them continue to set themselves on fire like you want them to and eventually the big opening will come for you to take half of their lifebar. If they’re the type to go back and shoot fireballs after being hit by Burnout, stick some pyrobombs and walk them down. They could likely be too scared to do anything and corner themselves and leave you at a greater chance of somehow opening them up with Burnout on them. Just some things to think about.
I know this is off topic, but the way you do the 20 ranked achievement is by playing the character the first few days they are out. I did that with everyone, but Aria, and I paid for it. When a character first comes out there is usually a cheap combo you can do for easy wins. Eyedol is that way right now. I waited to long do do Aria, and too many people knew how to deal with her, so it took me longer for her. That is some of the problem that you are having now.
Now as far as changing Cinder, I am one person that thinks he is fine. Cinder is a character that relies on setups and juggles, not just straight large combo damage. A large part of Cinder’s setups is setting body parts on fire.
Yes, I am aware that I’m having issues due to timing. I’m ok with that. As for burnout enders, I use those as well. Juggles, I need to learn a few. If you are willing to practice with me that’d be much appreciated.
If a player sits back and blocks while stuck, then you have your free in. Get close, detonate the bombs for frame advantage, and use the opportunity to apply pressure. If they try to zone, blow them up as soon as you hear the projectile come out. Cinder cannot be zoned when he has pyre bombs on the opponent - if someone chucks a fireball while stuck, blow them up for trying that.
I have tried that. Maybe I just need to leave Cinder alone for a whil and then come back to this with somewhat of a more open mind. Thanks again for the tips though, much appreciated
That was sort of where I was heading in my original train of thought, though I realise how broken it can be for Raam at times so if it ever were to be introduced, it would have to be fully tested etc to try and minimise the concept’s potential “brokenness”
Do you have any tips on beating Aria with her cannon projectile spam? I couldn’t beat it when i fought one earlier and I’d fought the rest of the match relly well in comparison and nearly had her. So frustrating
Just jump trailblaze over to her. Unless she does a hard read with the anti air version you can close the distance and start pressuring her. Since bass body has no reversal it’s screwed once you get in.
Thanks for the tip - I can never get jump trailblazer to work (which version do I have to use)?
At least now I don’t have to worry, as I’ve won my 20th ranked match with Cinder. Next will probably be Aria - Might leave Mira for last, though that could be suicidal.
I’ll post the footage of my final ranked match and I think/hope you’ll see the improvements from what I’d said to you all before and that match.
[quote=“SithLordEDP, post:18, topic:13345, full:true”]
Just jump trailblaze over to her. Unless she does a hard read with the anti air version you can close the distance and start pressuring her.[/quote]
This is about right. You’re only issue is the Shadow version that can be cancelled into on whiff if they see you jumping. At that point though they’re just wasting 1 stock of meter to hit you out of one thing.