I was showing the announcer’s voice while saying ULTRA to some friends in twitch who doesn’t know the game. While trying to get this (using joystick this time) I did the ultra but I got a counterbreaker instead. After that I got an instinct cancel (I may have input the directions wrong the second time, but why I’m getting a buffer from HK and then three punches will give me instinct cancel?).
I’m sure about the first one though, the one I got a CB.
And yes, I totally lost it (sorry for the outrage, but I honestly didn’t unsderstand what was happening)
Now I get what I’ve had weird inputs while playing online with my main too. Not getting Ultras has cost me matches but I also, once in a while, I got succesful counterbreakers because of it just because most ppl try to break that. Even so, is not what I intended to do. Why am I getting a counterbreaker from back-forward + 3P with Wulf anyway? =( Maybe the answer is in this example?
PS: Sorry for the bad quality, I can’t link youtube and the stream quality is very limited in my zone.
This is actually pretty easy to explain.
Counter breakers (for important reasons about option selects) take the highest priority in the input sequence. Try this: do a heavy auto-double with Arbiter, then immediately do any ender during the first hit of the auto-double. If you wait, your ender comes out! That’s great. But, if you input an ender and THEN do a counter breaker after (during your auto-double, before the ender happens), your ender input is ignored and counter breaker comes out immediately. Feel free to try it!
Remember in S3 that they added shortcuts for arcade stick users? LK + MP now acts as medium combo breaker, shadow counter, and counter breaker (basically, anything that MP+MK would have done), and LK + HP now acts as heavy combo breaker and instinct.
Also, there is what’s called a “kara window” in all fighting games (including KI) where 2 or 3-button commands don’t have to be directly input on the same frame for the move to register, because player inputs are sloppy and it’s very common to press one button, then press the other button 1 or 2 frames later. KI has this for shadow moves, throws, and any other thing where you have to input two buttons. Feel free to try it by turning on input display and doing a shadow move by deliberately pressing one punch button after the other! It should work if you do it fast enough.
So now let’s put it all together. In your video, you do the ultra command, but then accidentally press LK immediately after it. The game was ready to do ultra, but then you kara-canceled into the shortcut for counter breaker (LK + the MP button from your ultra input), which takes precedence over every other command. So you immediately get counter breaker.
If you didn’t accidentally press LK (or MK would have done the same thing), or if your LK press was just a few frames later, the ultra would have worked just fine! I imagine every other time you have gotten counter breaker, you have accidentally pressed LK or MK with your thumb during your ultra input.
I honestly don’t know how I pressed LK (I was playing on joystick which I’m not longer used to it so maybe that?) But I’m quite surprised that I did the Ultra and it got instantly cancelled by a counter breaker. I think the system should avoid that (at leat when we talk about ultras).
I’m impressed with all that explanation. I didn’t know about that priority system, I’ll test all you said tomorrow since now is reaaally late XD
By the way, since you know quite much about this technical things: where can I find data about option selects in KI?
Well, there are two things going on here… one is that you kara-canceled into ultra accidentally, the other is that counter breakers > ultras in the input priority system. I don’t think they can/should change the kara-cancel, since that would have serious problems across the rest of the game. And the kara-cancel is really the reason you got accidental counter breaker here. They could maybe change the input priority so ultras > all, but that could have some unintended side effects somewhere else.
I think the best answer is to just be a little cleaner with your inputs, even though I know that’s frustrating to hear.
There’s probably no resource out there, but you can experiment a bit in training mode, or ask me and I’ll help where I can.
It’s very easy to duplicate what happened in your video. Just do a heavy auto-double, then QCF + PPP and then immediately press LK or MK a frame or two later. You can try a few times and keep pressing LK or MK slower and slower until you actually get ultra (ie, your button is too late for the kara-cancel window)… you’ll find it passes very quickly. If you want to get instinct, press QCF + PPP and then HK a frame or two later! You’ll get an instinct cancel immediately, rather than the game blocking all your inputs and waiting for ultra to come out 1 second later.
So is that how kara- throws work?
Oh wow you sir are a literal well spring of information 0.o I had previously thought Kara-throws and tick throws were the same thing. I didn’t expect to be taught that when I checked out this thread lol
Ok, so I went to lab and this is what I got:
My inputs were cleaner (and I’ll tell you why) but I did try to reproduce the same sequence. And I got it. However the counterbreaker hardly came out, it just did in one oportunnity after many tries. So this is my guess “input lag”. Is not weird to get this more often in ranked due to that. I was streaming at that moment, that gave me lag, because the streams actually eats my whole connection which is not really prepared to stream. That is my theory, because I did the same, got the same inputs and only got it once (I tried different speeds and used the same joystick, next time I’m going to give a try with the fightstick).
Sadly I don’t play offline apart from the lab so I don’t have this happened a lot, however I’been told by other players that this is really an issue. Another player told me that stages like Aganos and Hisako mess up ultra’s inputs, getting shadow enders instead of them. I have no experienced that so far. But yes, there are things happening with commands like repeating too much, maybe a player would hit three times instinct but the inputs will register more. I don’t know…But what I do know is that my inputs are way cleaner when there’s no input lag.
Now that I read it all I’m aware about the kara window, one common mistake Wulf players can get is opener ender with shadow eclipse when we aren’t trying to get it, I 've even see that at tournaments.
You have a bad controller? Never had this problem
This is weird, because you aren’t really doing down-up motions as part of your combo. The only way eclipse ever comes out is if you did down-up (or, up-forward or up-back, maybe as part of your back-forward try).
Usually unintentional enders like this are not kara cancels, but negative edge problems (negative edge = a special move will come out if you release a button, not only when you press a button down). So people will try to do opener with punch, then try to do a linker + press a different punch button, but they release the first button late and it attaches itself to the linker input and (might) give you ender.
Some people really struggle with negative edge problems, while others don’t because their button press + release are very quick. Sometimes it happens worse for some characters because they are programmed to accept inputs longer, or something. It shouldn’t really happen too often with Wulf, though, because there is no linker that overlaps with eclipse input.
Nah, is an elite and it’s working just fine, same as the fightstick. The buffering must have something to do. I may think I pressed one time and maybe I pressed two, the sanwa are sensitive. However…The LK in the joystick was weird. I really don’t know anymore. I’ll keep an eye.
But if a dog can do a hadouken…
I’m experiencing some weird stuff while playing fulgore (not just him tho)I’ll do a hard knock down and go for a teleport mixup on the left side of the character and I’ll get a blade dash out of a teleport motion:frowning:so that’s definitely weird and I know what you guys are going to say yes I’m doing the motion for teleport right (QCA with LK)and I got (QCF with LK)I don’t have a video to prove this unfortunately its happening quite a lot after 3.4 patch I thought it might my controller as I play on an elite controller so I went and bought a new elite controller still have the same issue and it doesn’t happen all the time so I don’t know what’s going on thought I’d throw it out there though anyone else having trouble out of motions with their KI?
Directions have been bugged since the last update. Inputs get flipped during certain cross ups so that everything is backwards.
Yes there is a bad bug right now that causes inputs to be reversed until (I think) you get hit. It’s brutal and I hope MS is planning to hotfix it as soon as possible.