I would love to see this on your site Infil. I think that many people will benefit from being able to watch and see the exact moment they need to press a button in order to perform a manual.
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Thatās an incredible amount of work I think more beneficial would be a tutorial youtube video on how best to setup training mode to practice manuals. IE set the computer to auto-block, put combo status on, etc.
Infil has a pretty good suggestion on how to train on this.
I would love for training mode to have an on-screen indicator for when you can manual. They have the linker and AD symbols and text, but nothing that Iāve seen thatās indicative of the manual timingā¦ :ā(
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I really love this idea Galactic, we should train together sometime.
After a Shadow linkerā¦hit med kick late and immediately into an Ender. This should be the easiest manual for most characters.
I prefer to lock them out first, then shadow link the heck out of them and as soon as the lock out endsā¦thats when you use your manual. Basically making the combo a 1 break combo.
the other manuals after openers and regular linkers are much harder and less consistent. Find the 1-2 manuals that work for youā¦practice them until they are muscle memoryā¦ and mix it into your best combos.
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Good advise, thank you!
There is a way to find the manual timing on your own, set the dumy to autoblock and try a manual, if the dummi blocks then you did it too late, if you press the button and nothing comes out then you did it too early. You just keep doing that until you narrow it down and find the window, it should only take a few mins to find and master most manuals. Just keep in mind that not all linkers are created equal so some have much tighter windows than others cougharia grenade linkercough
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What @SithLordEDP says. The dummy will tell all using auto block. For someone who is new to it, like myself, it takes a lot of practice. Start by getting a light manual off of a shadow opener which is your largest frame window. Then try mediums and heavies after a shadow opener or linker. Then move on to heavy linkers to light followed by medium manuals.
It takes much practice and muscle memory.
I know this is slightly off topic, but one of the reasons I enjoy playing KI is that so much of the game is NOT dependent on āmuch practice and muscle memory.ā
Am I the only one who thinks the inclusion of manuals really upsets the gameās mechanics? Iām fine with a juggle here or a manual into opener etc. But replacing autodoubles with manuals just seems to ābreakā the game to me.
Well, I have to admit theyāre not my favorite feature of KI. It kind of reminds me of the just guard/just imputs mechanic that Soul Calibur introduced over the last 2 entries. Both take extremely precise timing, but performing a manual in KI is 10 times easier. I sometimes accidentally perform manuals, I never accidentally perform a just input. LOL! Anyway, hopefully weāll get a better instructional tutorial suited for all characters one day. Manuals are arguably one of the hardest things to master in this game, but theyāre there to allow for a more intricate fighting system. KI is so great because just about anyone can pick up and play this game, but few will ever truly master ever single aspect of fighting that this game has to offer. As @AddictedToKaos says, it takes (LOTS) of practice and muscle memory. I would be quite bored by now if this game wasnāt constantly challenging me to improve my game-play.
The game would be nowhere near as fun without manuals. Autos are too easy to break. The majority of them really arenāt as hard as some are leading you to believe anyway.
LOL! Heās right. Spinal has the easiest manuals in the game. Spectral Counter Breakers anyone? LOL!
Answering for myself, I do not feel that manuals at all break the system or āspiritā of KI. They are actually a fantastic way to keep the gameās combat system fluid and, ironically, actually reduce the amount of guesswork that goes into a combo interaction.
The only autodoubles that are unreactable are lights - the other two can both be broken reliably by higher level players. Heavy linkers are similarly reactable, and to a certain extent many medium linkers are as well. As a result, the only combos that are not generally subject to reaction breaks are comprised entirely of lights, which of course are in and of themselves easily breakable. Thus, KIās basic combo flow is more or less composed of things that can be reliably broken at high level, with lockouts being generated only once the defender makes a mistake in identifying the double or linker.
The primary (low-skill) means of stopping people from reaction breaking your combos is the counter breaker mechanic. This is, however, entirely a guess on your part. The attacker is making a guess that the opponent wonāt break, while the opponent is making his own guess as to whether or not now is a safe time/place to reaction break. This means that in a manual-less KI, the primary means of attaining damage is basically made on educated guesswork on whether or not the break or counter break is coming. Thereās almost no reason to ever attempt a longer combo in this world, because 2/3ās of your options are reactable, and to penalize the opponent requires the hardest of reads that in turn leads to a full combo punish if you happened to guess wrong. The meta (sorry Keits :p) therefore devolves primarily into very short combos and bluffs, which leads to a somewhat stilted flow of combat IMO.
With the addition of manuals, however, the calculation changes somewhat. The attacker now has a way to almost guarantee damage by forcing the opponent to guess or otherwise read patterns into his combo flow. Precisely because manuals require a guess to break, the attacker is far more likely to perform a longer combo that has more opportunities for the break, thereby extending and enriching the two-way interaction philosophy. The manual game drives the defender to perhaps look at linkers instead as the ideal break opportunities, which can give the attacker another angle to play on his own counter break game. Or maybe the attacker simply wishes to cash out quickly. Or maybe he now decides to throw in a medium or a heavy AD because the opponent isnāt looking at doubles anymore anyway, and because single manual combos arenāt particularly damaging. The flow of the combos, and therefore the two-way interaction that drives KI, is enhanced because it gives the attacker additional options that the defender must then react to. The system is balanced extremely well too, in that by gaining these additional options (that make life more difficult for the defender) the attacker also gives up some of the damage he might otherwise be doing were he to use ADās instead. Not to mention that due to the rules of manuals, ADās can provide additional combo options whereas a manual might be limited to two or even one option in a particular moment. This means that in some instances, breakability notwithstanding, ADās have better utility than manuals, and remain a viable option within the game.
The system is actually quite elegant I think. You sacrifice breakability for damage and variability, but gain an opportunity to better fish for lockouts and counters because now you can better drive the opponentās breaking options. Manuals keep the game from devolving into one-chance breaks and counter breakers, and actually encourage players to engage even harder into the two-way interaction philosophy. Theyāre also proof against mindless guess-breaking, which is also a healthy development. No one wants to have to play with someone whoās content to gamble on a 33% insta-break at all times, where your only option is to hope heās guessing wrong or that you can mash out counter breaker before he locks himself out prematurely. Manuals give the attacker another option in this instance, and I can say from experience that it is most welcome.
In short, manuals are a very welcome mechanic in the new KI. Not only are they in the spirit of the core two-way interaction philosophy, I personally believe they encourage it.
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Iād also like to add that manuals being droppable is important; in order to get a level of unbreakability, you have to expose yourself to the chance you might mess up the combo (a virtual impossibility if you just use doubles and linkers). I know this is a touchy subject for some people but doing things that can be messed up in the heat of the moment is important for fighting games, and manuals bring that aspect to the combo game.
And I know there are lots of people who prefer S1ās manual system, but I think Stormās post above shows why the S2 manual change is a good one. In order to get access to a pure 1/3 manual guess (in most cases), you have to sneak a heavy linker past someone, so thereās a bit of a tradeoff here. S1 breaking largely was reliant on guessing, since light and medium linkers (again, in most cases) were virtually unreactable, so you definitely guessed on the manual and you almost always guessed on the linker, too. S2 brings about a really nice balance between trying to wait for something reactable or guessing. Also, the S2 change that brings about higher damage shadow enders means you are rewarded much more if your opponent guessed wrong, so you have real incentive to try to survive the break attempt, as opposed to just doing a small cashout (which still also has its place in S2).
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I spent a LOT of time in practice mode studying manuals, and I still do when Iām learning a new character. For the sake of Galactic Geek, I practiced a bit last night with Aganos and figured out a few cool manuals. Nothing special yet, but then again, I know absolutely nothing of Aganos.
If any of you have ever fought my Sadira, youāre gonna know that I use a TON of manuals. Iām currently reacquainting myself with Spinal (I donāt count the Ghostly manuals), Jago, and Sabrewulfās manuals.
My best advise, if you REALLY want to learn them. Go into practice mode, turn on the info tabs, so you can see what youāre doing. Every time you do a successful manual, it will list it as a light blue, orange, or red manual. If you get an auto double, you did it too fast.
The art of manuals is training yourself to not button mash. Learning to control your presses and get the timing down right.
I find the easiest manuals to occur right after an opener. I was able to perform a super easy MP manual right after a jumping HK opener with Aganos. I then did his rolling ball thing and was able to perform an LP manual and then another ball roll. Not the flashiest combo, but as stated I donāt know anything about him. (yet).
One of my favorite combos to use with Sadira is HK Opener, HP manual, medium Linker, light manual, Heavy Linker + Ender
If I have meter, HK opener, HP manual, medium/heavy Linker, light manual, Shadow Demon Blade, HP manual, Ender
Thanks to all three of the above for your thoughtful responses. Itās certainly one way to think about it, although I admit Iām still not convinced based on some observations/opinions.
part of the KI 2013 philosophy is about reducing the execution barrier to āhigh levelā āmind gameā oriented play. Manuals reintroduce that barrier. If both opponents can perform manuals and reliably react to heavy linkers then I see where your coming from. But a lot of people (like me) canāt. Itās not a cop out or an issue of āget gud.ā Iāve played 500+ hours of KI. Even with medium auto doubles I really have to make a read to get it right.
But for the sake of argument letās say youāve got two guys for whom auto double reads are slow and easy. They are still both involved in the two way head game between breakers and counter breakers. Thereās no execution issue, itās just the head game.
But with manuals you set up a situation where one guy (the slow old guy like me) simply Canāt see or read manuals and the other guy can. He has a huge execution advantage over me and we are not playing the same game pretty much at all.
I know that execution will always matter in the outcome of a fight, but weāve taken it back to tight frame timing instead of easy execution and high level mind games.
The game is designed with a low execution barrier which is fantastic. It also has a element of precise execution that it added that some may choose to try and learn but do not need to.
It has a fine balance of providing an accessible system to low execution players and also providing something to higher execution players who may otherwise become bored of the simplicity.
Learning curves are important. You could argue for the really new player that light autodoubles and linkers happen too fast and are hard to execute so why have them? At the end of the day the game provides options for multiple types of players which is a good thing. Now youāve said that you have played over 500 hours of KI and donāt have that execution or skill in reactions.
Truth be told Iām like you, Iāve played a ton of KI but I still donāt manual well and my combo breaking reactions are not great. But I donāt believe it is because you or I are incapable of doing so I think itās because we both (and Iāll admit to making a huge assumption on your part) prefer to spend our time just playing the game rather than focusing on practicing these elements. Which is a choice we consciously make and one that I know will hinder me vs. players who have spent time practicing these elements. I suppose the difference is youād rather these elements be taken out whereas I simply accept that Iāll be less successful until I adapt and practice the elements I know Iām lacking.
Make no mistake, Iām not insinuating that youāre lazy. I simply feel that options are nice to have and appreciate the game is able to a appeal to multiple demographics.
You are not wrong. I would rather play the game than practice for sure. But I have spent time in the practice mode, and when you sit there for an hour occasionally landing a manual at random thatās long enough for me to believe that Iām never going to do them.
I donāt want them taken out of the game. Well, sure I do but Iām not making that suggestion. I have always played fighting games and there have always been things I couldnāt do that others could. Iām okay with that. Iām cool with my mid tier fighting skills. I just donāt think that manuals fit with KIs philosophy of low execution barrier, two way interactions and high level head games. Others have offered their thoughtful responses as to why they disagree. I donāt want to belabor the point so I will give it a rest.
This might be obvious to a lot of you who have a lot of practice with Aganos, but I just discovered something I didnāt know. Someone mentioned how useful it is to use chunks mid-combo, which is something I donāt do too often (despite being an Aganos main), so I decided to give it a try (along with a few other things) in practice mode.
What I discovered is that you can EASILY do manuals with Aganos using his l.payload assault to fish for lockouts. All you have to do is hit your opponent with a normal to start the combo (lights and mediums work best I find), and then follow it up with a l.payload assault - once you do that, you can then IMMEDIATELY use ANY manual with no limitation to what strength you used prior (so, you can use a light attack to start and get a heavy manual with the l.payload assault in-between)! MIND BLOWN
It reminds me of Mayaās easy dagger manuals, except these are Aganosā easy chunk manuals. 
This is how you do after-opener manuals with Aganos! 