Let me ban combo assist in my lobbies

Training wheels don’t give you an advantage in a competitive cyclist race, but they help newbies learn.

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The difference her is that there isn’t pro cyclist when you are just learning. Not only that but people on here are basically saying use CAM or don’t even try to learn at all.

Input dexterity is not the core focus of what makes KI fun. Had we figured out combo assist before KI’s initial launch, we would have had it in from the start. It’s here now, and not going anywhere.

Because (see first sentence).

Get into someone’s mind and wreck them. That’s KI.


I guess with SFV coming out you had to try something to get those players in to justify Microsoft giving you more money.

There is a BIG difference in the statement “use CAM or don’t learn at all” compared to “use CAM…or not. They both have pros and cons in the lower skill levels of the game and its up to an individual to choose what method to use. Just don’t ostracize someone for their decision.”

That bike analogy is almost perfect. If I’m setting up a neighborhood bike riding race Im not gonna prevent someone from joining because he has training wheels. Not just because that would be an dicck move but because in the long run training wheels are give a disadvantage since you don’t have a lot of freedom in your movements and can’t turn as sharply.
Just as CAM forces you into a combo even if you just want to poke and establish space and even LIMITS you in the amount of Enders you can perform.

As Cinder would say, “ooh. Sick burn!” :fire:

But seriously.

KI was never, ever about input dexterity, even in the arcade. It was about combos, recognizing patterns of your opponents, and then breaking them. At high levels, new KI is a very mentally taxing game because you always have to pay attention and react, even when you’re the one being hit.

What it comes down to is that CAM doesn’t make you a better mental player, which is how you win in KI. Other fighting games are all about not getting hit. Full stop. KI is not like that. Inevitably, you will be hit in KI. It’s what you do once you’re being hit that makes the game great for both players. CAM allows players that would never, ever be able to get to that mental level in a fighting game to have a chance to experience it. We want more people playing fighting games because the mental game is amazing and rewarding, but so many never get to even feel it even once.

Notice that even SFV has removed all of the crazy 1-3 frame links that were in SFIV. Why? It’s not necessary to use those as a measure of skill in a game with enough other ways to outsmart and “outplay” an opponent. You could consider that skill yes, but every pro landed those with 100% accuracy, meaning at the high end game, they’re irrelevant to success.

When’s the last time you heard a commentator in any fighting game event say “wow, nice fireball input there!”.

Also, I’m from Microsoft. :kissing:


Being irrational option selects (and everything that looks similar) hater, may I ask for tl;dr of what devs want to do and/or some directions to places where I can find out? If some particular statements were made at all, ofc.
I am very interested in this topic.

Combo assist is not “an advantage” in the sense you seem to be saying it is. Sure, it helps (I personally use it to cash out on lockout situations and to react to things that otherwise I might not be able to as a player with no sight) but other than that I don’t see what the problem is really. Sure sometimes you can also guess when they’re using combo assist, but then all you have to do is block and punish, or out strategise most of the time.

In season 3 they are going to remove the airborne detection so characters like TJ don’t get the best specials for the situation. They are also adding a directional input for doing an opener which will remove a lot of people issues with being able to US CAM to OS crossups, this will also negate some other option selects since you will be forced to intentionally execute the opener. It will also negate new players from being able to mash pokes into combos as they will need to press a direction to start the combo which personally I never thought was a big deal, but I know there are numerous people who were salty about it.

With these changes in place there theoretically is no logical advantage to using CAM as CAM users are subject to the same rules as non-CAM users.

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Amazing reply and (IMO) good changes, thank you!

Another change included in the season will be making the opener, linker and ender specials the same for the button. In the current system using Jago as an example, forward and heavy punch will give you a DP damage ender if done in a combo or a heavy laser sword if done outside a combo. This means of you should happen to drop your combo (say if you were doing a manual before the ender and missed the link) you will get a special move which is plus on block rather than them blocking a heavy DP and being free to punish.

The devs originally picked the two best enders and chose them as the two CAM enders, so Jago will go from having endokuken and tiger fury enders to having wind kick and laser sword enders. This change actually means that players will have incentive to learn to input the special moves manually to get access to their best enders.


It definitely should be a option in a lobby

Great arguments, Lennie, I’m sold.

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Losing to CAM means you have holes in your own gameplay. It would be better to analyze your defense and countering choices than to blame a system that may/may not give a new player an advantage.
I’ve played against several of these new CAM players, they mash lights standing or crouching in place. If that doesn’t work, they’ll jump until they get to me. They have no idea how to use specials and normals for pressure. Instead of being mad about them, use them to work on your blocking, find the right spots to come back with your own attack pressure.
Anything else I can say has already been mentioned above, like going in to practice for a while first. I’ve been playing for more than a year now and I can honestly say, I’m still ■■■ at the game.

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I have never blamed somebody’s use of combo assist for my losses. I earned them by failing to break and mistiming my attacks. My opponent is not to blame for this. And I won’t get better by expecting my opponents to handicap themselves. CAM is perfectly fair.


Combo assist is apparently here to stay. As one who has put a lot of hours into learning how to do combos properly I find it annoying that people with zero of this skill are on par with me. I bet others feel the same, but I think I have a solution. Make the “Combo assist Disabled” setting do ten percent more damage. That will give people motivation to learn how to play the game how it was originally was meant to be played, and will give us veterans the edge we deserve for going old school.

Veterans need an edge? That they feel they deserve??? Because noobs won’t drop combos anymore???

Lmao usually it’s the noobs getting help fighting against veterans lol not the other way around. That’s certainly the first time I have ever heard this…

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I’m at the killer rank, & I have played against my kids with CAM on & off…the only real difference was with CAM on they felt more confident & enjoyed playing more because they were doing a few flashy moves & that looked cool…even though they were losing just as badly. CAM doesn’t make a noob good at spacing, or timing, or breaking combos, or counter breaking…that all still has to be learned.


Wait, are you guys seriously admitting that you need help beating noobs because they can do combos now?

That doesn’t mean you should make them worse… That means you need to get better…


While we’re at it, make ARIA’s hover faster when you input it with down,down,[up] instead of just [up], and Laser Sword frametrap harder when you use pretzel motion instead of quarter-circle. That would be consistent with this “oldschool” idea of inputs for the sake of inputs.