LCD on Kimberly Wu

Things I would change:

  • increase Shadow Dragon Kick hitbox size on the stomp part
  • increase Shadow Counter hitbox size
  • reduce floatiness of the jump
  • remove Firecracker gap
  • start the match with one dragon

While most of those are certainly more than just quality of life buffs, I don’t see how any of this would help in her bad matchups, most notably Aganos. A lot of the changes to characters in the past have been very matchup oriented.
Also, I’d like to add that I don’t want to exchange damage for those changes or any other tools they might add. She’s a whiff punish character and as such, you should really feel punished for doing something stupid against her.

One MAJOR thing is after she dragon kicks, she sits facing the same way far too long before switching sides.

'which way did he go- which way did he go- OH! ’

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I don’t see how aganos is a bad match up. Elaborate please.

Oh god she can’t do anything.

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Lol! I don’t feel much could have been done after testing as they were on the deadline for her to be released.

I’m certain Kim Wu will have awesome balance updates by the end of the year.

Lol’ omg she can’t do anything’ :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

To be fair Zergs aganos will make any matchup look like that against someone who doesn’t know the matchup. I’m not claiming LCD doesn’t know the matchup, I’m just plainly saying that he chose to fight arguably the worlds best Aganos vs. his S3 character he picked up less than a month ago. Zerg will go 10-1 with a lot of people and a lot of characters, especially if you don’t specifically know the Aganos matchup.

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@GalacticGeek This is interesting given your comment about the match up earlier. Check it out.

Maya should start with Pips and Spinal should start with Skulls by this argument. Aganos struggles against some characters without chunks and does better against some. Grounded heavies go through armor. I’ve yet to see people take advantage of it.

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As weak as dragon cannons are id like a stronger impact or execution sound😁

Starting a match with resource like Aganos does chunks should be treated on a case by case basis and I feel Kim Wu’s case should be examined. Ground heavies are a no brain-er but yes you’re right when people are still forgetting about that change. I used them a lot in my set with ZergKiller and other great Aganos players like Cstyles and Nightslash but Kim Wu still can’t do anything against him.

oooommmg this all day. As a beginner, I pick her up, I say “what is the thing that separates her from the cast? Oh it must be these dragons. So I need to master dragons…” and then hours and hours of frustration set in. Bc you can’t get them in a match, and then what do you do when you have them? do a quick approach only to get snuffed out? perhaps have an easier time at a quick 30% juggle combo from dragon kick?.. meh…

Always when switching to Kim from anyone else I end up saying “that floaty ■■■ jump ■■■■!..” for the first half of the match

If dragons are supposed to be ‘her thing’ then they need to be easier to get. I would say the best patch would be to make that dragon ender more rewarding in damage and number of dragons gained. I’d say give us at least 2 if not all 3 off of one dragon ender. And buff the damage jeez. And unlock dragon cannons from dragons any time during the match, not just instinct, and perhaps having something where if you throw a cannon outside of instinct, you lose 2 or all of your dragons (assuming the number of dragons we get from the dragon ender is increased)

I admit, I don’t have much time with Kim Wu but I think the floaty jump is just bad. It feels so weird on her.

My analysis:

1:54 - Undefeated (1-0)
2:10 - Cat leaves the room
2:35 - Winless for the rest of the set (0-10)

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To be honest I had a lot more I wanted to discuss/mention in my original post but wanted to keep it somewhat tame to spare people form reading a 10,000 word essay. I do however want to bring up a quick point about Kim that I think is important.

WALK SPEED

  • I can’t stress enough that a lot of problems that Kim is facing right now is from her lack of a better walk/dash speed. She is a very stubby character making her limbs not reach as far as they probably should. This makes whiff punishing a lot of characters very difficult especial the ones that have armor like Glacius and Aganaos. Whiff punishing with Dragon kicks is impossible when they have armor on, that combined with the large startup on shadow Dragon Dance leaves few options. Even trying to punish Aganos from doing an unsafe chunk up with no current chunks still leaves her at a disadvantage because the armor activates before she hits leaving Aganos free to punish. Having a better walk/dash speed would allow her to move in hit her heavy buttons Aganos especially.

Aside from the obvious bug/glitch fixes like shadow counter, the walk/dash speed is a major culprit for her overall weakness that I can see. I’m not sure if they can actually make her that much faster to walk without it looking completely ridiculous due to how short she is, though.

I think it would be nice, and suiting of a whiff-punish character, to have a dash that functioned similarly to Tusk’s immortal spirit in terms of frame data. Is that what you had in mind when you meant a faster dash? Being able to do a quick forward or back hop and be ready to block immediately like with Tusk’s move would help that Aganos matchup, and it would also help a ton with whiff-punishing. It would also help anti-airing as you could just backdash people and then bat them out of the sky with st. mp.

I think buffing her dragon cancels or how easily she earns dragons is dangerous. Some of the mixups you can do off of them are terrifying and among the hardest to block mixups in the game. If anything were to change about the dragons, I would just up the maximum count to 4 or 5 for now. There have been times like when I get knocked down during instinct and then I want to do a counter but I already have 3 dragons as the round is starting. I mean, yeah I can still do it, but it just feels bad to waste it.

I’m surprised no-one’s brought this up yet, but what is everyone’s thoughts on letting her dash-cancel out of a parry attempt? That can be a new, interesting way to start a combo as the opponent would still be in that stagger state from the parry. There is always still the risk that they bait and you dash-cancel into their next attack, though.

Yikes that would be incredibly strong. Too strong. You’re basically giving her Hisako’s counter, a parry that leads to combo. Except she gets a dragon and it simultaneously covers both high and low attacks. Compared to Hisako who has to make a read on the incoming attack being high or low.

If the idea is to help her obtain dragons more easily perhaps they could add triple doubles like spinal or fulgore for a resource, or a heavy linker that provides a dragon during combo.

I dunno, it’s all too early still. I think she plays very different and I’m not convinced people are playing her at her full potential. And not to single anyone out but I think that goes for almost all characters in the cast right now. Most spinals are still doing season 2 stuff, Glacius clearly has a number of setups that are under-explored and under used, etc. You know Keits was saying the Japanese scene are doing carbine manuals with arbiter something I’ve yet to see from western players. Makes me wonder what kind of tech they may have found with Kim-Wu and how they play her.

It’s not uncommon in fighting games for the community to agree that a character is under powered just for some person to come along with some new tech, or a different style of play that showcases new strengths of a character, thereby changing the perception of said character.

One thing is undeniable though, her Shadow Counter needs to be fixed.

Or her dash should have a safe confirmed hit attached to it for combo startup

A lot of Kim users dash without knowing and fall into a throw or punish.

Just wondering how much Kim was tested before her launch.

Instinct usually benefits characters for super powered abilities.

Her slow generating dragons, dash for just dash purposes and static shadow counters are disappointing IMO

look at Mira’s infinite instinct dash.

You mean Mira’s infinite instinct dash that slowly kills her?

Kim is not uniquely disadvantaged in having to pick and choose when and where she dashes. With any character in the game (even ones with unique dashes like Hisako or Wulf), if you pick a bad time and place to dash, you’re going to get punched in the face for it. And the simple fact of the matter is that you will have deserved it. None of Kim’s tools (or lack thereof) make it necessary for her to have another special cancelable dash or anything of the sort. And for the record, I sweep Tusk out of his immortal spirit dash all the time as well. It’s not a panacea to problems on approach.

Kim’s average walk speed certainly makes it harder for her in footsies than it would be if she had, say, Orchid’s walk speed, but we have to remember that Kim doesn’t exist in a vacuum. She’s actually quite capable of punishing someone for trying to walk forward against her, and her own difficulties on approach largely seem to push her in the direction that that is the space she should primarily exist in. The more I see and play her, the more I’m convinced that Kim is really supposed to fill this footsie/whiff punish archetype that really just does not exist in KI among anyone else in the cast. LCD’s correct that this gets blown all to heck when armor is involved, but that’s not exactly a large slice of the cast either. There are going to be some bad MU’s in any fighter, and particularly so when you have a wide variety of character playstyles and archetypes.

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Thunder has an instinct dash without hit confirmation, but phases through the opponent- he can phase infinitely during instinct.

I feel Kim’s risk/ reward regrading her dragon abilities upon instinct could be altered, that’s just my opinion, and I shouldn’t have to be challenged for that. I know I’m not alone in many other afterthoughts of Kim. Whether she remains the same trait level is up to Keits.

I will say not everyone is all Indian style daily in front of the tube 7 hours in trying to find tech, it shouldn’t be that deep- maybe in another 6 months there will be closure