I just tried it in training and it doesn’t work. Hisako can’t block or counter on reaction to the shadow freeze for Jago’s shadow DP. Give it a try in training and let me know what you find.
It’s possible that you weren’t standing quite close enough for it to hit on the first frame post-freeze?
I just tried this by recording Fulgore doing neutral jump (for timing), land, then shadow DP immediately. With Kim I walked up and tried to parry just as soon as he landed (ie, before the freeze). I got the dragon but then Fulgore hit me anyway with the last 4 hits. So she “can” parry the first hit but it doesn’t seem to stop the DP. Maybe it’s because Fulgore is invincible so when Kim tries to push him away with the parry animation, it just whiffs? I don’t know enough about how Kim’s parry handles multi-hitting moves. Hisako doesn’t have this problem (if you record the same situation and use Hisako’s parry, it works as expected).
Also just tested against Wulf’s shadow eclipse, which has the same problem of getting hit after parrying the first hit. This one is 1f after the freeze, so you don’t have to do it preemptively. But she can successfully parry shadow jumping slash, which is a fast multi-hitting move. So my guess is it has something to do with the invincibility making the parry animation whiff. I don’t know if this is a bug or not?
Thanks, this is great. I actually just hopped on to confirm the same thing - could get the dragon but Fulgore still hit me. I will remember the trick about neutral jump for timing. I was doing another move then counting to 3, lol. I’m an amateur for sure when it comes to the lab.
Edit: It’s strange because I know you can parry Rash’s shadow boot as I have done this in a match. I guess that doesn’t have any invincibility, just a large hitbox?
My guess is Rash’s shadow boot has invincibility at the start, but he becomes vulnerable again after the first active frame (so he’s NOT invincible when the parry is trying to hit him).
Fulgore’s shadow DP is invincible beyond the first active frame (I think he’s invincible until he’s about halfway up).
As a casual who had played as each character since release enough to get 20 ranked wins achievement and more, Kim is by far my least favorite character.
Good to know that I wasn’t crazy on what I remembered about Kim’s parry - and also that we’re thinking along similar lines in terms of why it can “shut down” certain shadows, without doing so to others.
Yes, it seems this is a spacing thing. At “typical” Hisako meaty range, you’re far enough out that you can reaction wrath cancel to the freeze, or just mash counter if you didn’t happen to be doing anything. If you’re point blank though, you’re getting tagged.
This was actually pretty illuminating. I consider myself to be a decently technical player at this point, but I genuinely did not know that Jago’s shadow DP was that fast after the freeze. Was pretty illuminating to see that I couldn’t even block on reaction to the freeze. Always nice to learn more - this will make me somewhat more particular in the spacings I choose to play oki with him.
Kim is just a very tough, technical character. I’ve been getting reamed in exhibition matches trying to figure her out and I can definitely understand all the salt that gets poured out on here. She’s frustrating to use - it feels like you have no buttons to deal with a lot of situations. But I’m going to see if I can get halfway decent. I think she’s sort of like riding a motorcycle - every thing you want to do is wrong and will get you killed. You have to know exactly what to do in every situation and fight your instincts most of the time.
Well it is a 3f move. But the 3 frames happens during the freeze. Same way thunder’s shadow command grab works. Once you see the freeze and you haven’t done anything to stop it beforehand you’re getting snagged.
what helped me with Kim wu and get a better grasp was playing her like she was an “anime” character. Once i started using the dragons for air dashes it put a lot of people in awkward situations.
Free dragons on any portal punch, a great screen-chewing punish to the start-up of portal punch, and I imagine her parry knocks down and damages summons. She also has a better tool than the vast majority of the cast for plucking Gargos out of the sky when he starts his multi-jump nonsense.
Haven’t played the MU yet, but yeah, I’d buy that Kim wins it, or that at the least it is mildly favorable for her.
The key point is this: Once Gargos its on Kim’s Dragon kick reach and she has a dragon, he can’t do nothing.
If he jumps, he eats it. If he uses a portal, he eats it. All his moves are slow enough to be killed by dragon kick, and the dragon can make it safe or convert it into more damage
I have been playing Kim a bit since the Gargos patch and I forgot how fun she is. I am focusing on whiff punishes with dragon kick and MP for footsies.
