Is this intentional or some sort of bug?

Characters Spinal
1

So I was practicing in Shadow Lab today and noticed something with Spinal…let me set up the scenario.

So in the match, I end up fully loaded with skulls and my opponent is a good distance away. I know this character has no teleport so I decide to unload my skulls, usually one of each in a random order.

So I have one drop from overhead that hits them, then I have one going at them from mid, and a low one slowly approaching behind the mid. I know they typically are focused on blocking the skulls, so as soon as I launch the last skull, I use Spinal’s run. They end up getting hit by at least 2 of the skulls and they are crouch blocking for the last one to hit. I pretty much run right over the last in there face and try to throw them since they are holding block for the skulls, but the grab doesn’t work? Spinal does the animation but they don’t get thrown…is this intentional?

TLDR: When my opponent has been hit with one or more skulls and is crouch blocking, my throw doesn’t connect even though the animation comes out.

2

You cannot grab the opponent in block stun. Block stun is when the opponent is stuck and can’t move because of blocking a move. You can’t grab them during this because then unblockable setups will be a thing.

2 Likes
3

Oh I see. So if I am cornered and blocking a move, I can’t be thrown and vise versa?

4

Exactly. But keep in mind that some buttons are used for a tick throw (they will hit you then grab you directly when you are out of blockstun).

Oh, and in your case, if the guy is crouch blocking in anticipation of a searing skull, you can totally open his guard with spinal’s overhead (Back Heavy Punch). I need to check the frame data and if the move is run cancelable though, but that’s an option for you.

1 Like
5

Oh ok, I didn’t know that. Lol I am still learning, so thanks!

So what should I do in that situation? I can throw all my skulls and have them focused on blocking those, is there nothing I can do with that? I know that if they are close enough when they get hit by a skull I can use a his Shadow Shield charge for an opener, but if they are full screen and getting hit by all my skulls I am not sure what I should do since I can’t scare them with the incoming skulls + run-in grab lol

6

Well, you always have the heavy skeleport (which will change the position, so your opponent need to block the skull low but also in the other direction). Then overhead, tick throw or simply press.

That’s something I said in every character thread I go but I will say again, I’m not a Spinal player (in fact, I’m more of a random player).
But I don’t think that’s a good idea to use all of your skulls when you are full screen.
Personnaly, I use them after a soul sword ender (depending on the level and your ressources, you can do a lot of thing after.), as mixup tool (Light or Heavy Skull with teleport, meaty low skull into overhead, heavy skull then slide), pressure (you can cancel every grounded normal, maybe command normal, by the run for one skull) and part of a combo (Meaty Far HP or MP into skull, manual, combo).
I know that you can use them too for upgrading special moves, with heavy (bone shaker heavy with a skull is projectile invulnerable) but I don’t really like to spend my skulls like that (I’m maybe wrong)

7

Dang it! You beat me to mentioning the overhead! :frowning:

Oh, and it is cancellable from a run, but some may find it difficult since you have to let go of holding forward to run to press backwards to start the move. :wink:

8

I used to have the same issue with Omens Orda shield. I couldn’t figure out why I couldn’t grab while they were blocking the rotating orbs. It makes sense why you cant… it just wouldn’t be fair.

9

Yeah I typically try to do a skull after the upward sword thing but sometimes when they are kind of just chilling in the corner ill throw a few out and then move in for the attack lol but thanks for all the suggestions, ill try some of that out later today :slightly_smiling:

@GalacticGeek: So I can cancel the run into his overhead? Awesome lol I have gotten used to doing different run cancels thanks to MK3/UMK3 and MKX so I should be able to get the hang of it after a bit.

@FallofSeraphs76: Lol I think I was expecting a tactic like that to work because of MK, where even if you are cornered and just blocked an attack you can be thrown still, but its somewhat balanced because you cans still tech the throw if you let go of block

10

You can cancel the run into any move after 12 frames (as fighting games run at 60fps this is exactly 0.2 seconds). You cannot cancel into blocking however, you need to stop running first which takes about 4 frames.

The rules for grabbing in mk and KI are largely the same except you cannot duck a throw. In both KI and mk if the opponent is actually stuck blocking a previous attack (as in, they are actually incapable of doing another action) then the throw won’t work and will miss. However you can time it so the grab connects just as they come out of blockstun meaning they have to block and then suddenly avoid a throw. The same applies for hitstun but both games have strange rules here, such as being able to grab during a juggle in mk or after a wallsplat/stagger in KI.

Edit: Fall, you actually CAN throw an opponent between hits of shadow orda shield as long as you aren’t in instinct. Outside of instinct there is a small gap in the blockstun between when 2 orbs hit, you can catch them with a grab in this gap (hard to time though). The reason this is only outside of instinct is the additional 2 orbs means each hit will come faster (less distance between orbs).

1 Like
11

Yeah they are pretty similar though I think its less strict in MK when it comes to the timing of waiting for the block stun to finish, or I think MK character recover from block stun a lot quicker or something since it seems you can run up and throw even if they are blocking in corner but I do see what you are saying

Lol I love being able to grab in the middle of a juggle, but its risky since it can be teched lol

Quick question, when somebody combos me, what are Spinal’s best wake-up options? It seems that no matter what I do when I am getting comboed and the combo is over, they end up stuffin anything I try to do unless I combo break or manage to wake up heavy teleport, which ends up getting blocked lol

12

You actually have several options but outside of a hard read most of them don’t normally work very well as they take too long. Against many characters if they know what they’re doing you don’t have any options except block, as if you try anything else it is easy to stuff or block.

That said, you’re options are as follows:

Regular skeleport: fully strike invulnerable on way down, no invulnerability on way up, always vulnerable to throws. Quite a slow option which can be reacted to and stuffed or even option selected to catch you coming up, even if you cancel the heavy version into another special (although you can cancel into another skeleport for more strike invulnerability).

Soul sword: has upper body invulnerability (just removes half his hurtbox) of various lengths during start up, shadow version has invulnerability last into initial active frames. Very poor as a defensive option, the invulnerability runs out before the move becomes active so it is bad as a reversal, and many attacks can hit the lower body hurtbox quite easily (including aerial attacks). Shadow version is a mediocre anti air.

Skull enhanced heavy boneshaker: beats projectiles, invulnerability starts from first frame but ends quickly after connecting, so it can’t be used to travel through a projectile if you would end up hitting on top of it.

Shadow boneshaker: throw and projectile invulnerable. Throw invulnerability is from first frame, projectile is from after the freeze so cannot be used to beat a meaty projectile. Hard read on a throw or non meaty projectile.

Shadow skeleport: fully invulnerable, long startup and very negative, always crosses up. Can be performed airborne). Can be easily blocked on reaction, and neutral jumped on reaction, both are easy punishes. Using an advancing move against Spinal (such as Jago’s double roundhouse or wind kick) will move you away from the skeleport automatically. A lot of wakeup pressure on Spinal will be attacks which allow the opponent to attack and still block this attack. Throws are an exception to this, but are also covered by shadow boneshaker.

Also, for the sake of completeness, you can avoid throws by jumping, and backdashes have a brief window of invulnerability at the start.

I most often get away with a light skeleport on wakeup if anything but it isn’t ideal and can be punished if the opponent is prepared. Mostly, you have to block and try to tech/jump throws.