Instinct/ Peacemaker Club Buff

Hi everyone.

When the forums relaunched, I submitted a post talking about ways to simplify Agnes’s chunk system so he would be easier to use. After playing with Aganos some more, I realized Aganos is actually in really good shape. He does have some issues against some characters of the cast, but he can tackle each one pretty easily with he right mindset going into the match.

One thing we can all agree on and after seeing posts about it, the Instinct is Aganos’s weakest part. Agonies is character that is suppose to install fear into your opponent. Even without chunks, having a wall up will still force the opponent to react more based on fear rather than what they should do in a situation.

When I ever activate Instinct, the entire match becomes a zoning war, with both characters at the edges of the screen. If you block hits by the peacemaker club, it pushes your opponent away do to the block stun. Since the thrown peacemaker covers full screen and projectiles, the match then becomes a zoning war in witch Aganos dominates, but puts him at an incredibly far distance, giving the opponent breathing room even if they are hit by projectiles. The instinct should help install more of fear Aganos brings to the table.

How does Agnes’s bring fear? He does that by walls and chunks. The peacemaker club doesn’t help that do to it pushing the opponent away. It does have the great tool of being a special throw, great grab range, and wall crashing the opponent on throw, but if your opponent is too far away to begin with, that tool becomes pointless.

This is what I suggest with the peacemaker club in general, which in all would affect the Instinct.

~Make the club not take up Aganos’s hitbox as well as giving it less push block stun.
This would give aganos back his projectile breaking light punch. The cost would be when swinging this club and it gets hit by a projectile, it would take a point of damage. In a way the club itself gains the armor effect, but at a longer range, so shadow projectiles would still be good against it. The push block stun would also help Aganos get closer to his opponent quicker
~Peacemaker can be returned as a wall once picked up
When you pick up or gain a peacemaker club, inputting the wall actions will place the peacemaker wall in front or backward of aganos. This could allow aganos to reposition a peacemaker club that he has placed down, having it keep the hits it currently has when being placed as a wall again.

This would mean during Instinct as long as Aganos is regenerating walls, he gains a free wall he can place behind or in front of him without a chunk.

keep in mind though, all normal rules that cause the peacemaker club to break still apply except for placing up walls, which not uses the wall Aganos currently has.

I think this in all helps reinstall fear when playing with Aganos. The chunk armor is still a powerful asset of his, and letting him gain that during instinct I think would make him too powerful. Instead, letting him use the peacemaker club as a new wall during instinct would help him place walls and then use another generated club to go in and try to thow his opponent.

Any thoughts? I think this would seriously help Aganos in a big way without having to completely change up his gameplay and improves his weakest tool. As during a match unless a mirror match, there would be no point of using a wall as a peacemaker club, and this would at least increase the use

~LMJ

Just put a wall behind them to prevent them from backing away from you any further.

His club is a really good tool. Has good range and hitbox. It sounds more like you are having trouble with chunking up. Aganos can chunk up pretty well in Instinct if your opponent is respecting your club and spacing too much.

If they’re closing in on you, depending on the MU, some characters are forced to jump in since it’s a faster way to close in on you. If this is the case, throw your club at them or anit air them if you don’t already have a club in your hand.

You are correct. Throwing the club and placing your opponent at distance gives Aganos a chance to chunk up. Chunking up though takes time and removes more instances for you to use the club.Instead you are chunking up, and placing your opponent far away, which is awful for Aganos especially against zoning heavy characters.

If you play Aganos a lot, you learn that the overall goal is to install enough fear into your opponent to be successful. Sure this is pretty much all through the chunk system, but its a combination of the armor, walls, and the club. Using the instinct allows you to chunk up, but safe at a distance, rather than getting in and placing fear on your opponent. Certain characters can still punish from full range while you are chunking up. The idea is not to worry about the chunks, and instead worry about placing walls up and using your club to get in and either start a combo or throw your opponent.

I think a huge thing people underestimate about aganos is the idea that chunks are not just the armor, but also the walls, projectiles, and the peacemaker club. Most of Aganos’s damage comes from the walls being crashed into, so using a wall as the club almost feels like a waist outside of instinct since unless up close has no real advantage except range, but since the club is an added hitbox, it still doesn’t solve the fear problem.

The best example of all of this is that Kan-Ra is definitely Aganos’s worst match up due to his incredible zoning tools and traps. Kan-Ra surprisingly does not do well with Aganos up close even if Aganos has limited chunks. Making the club not contain a hotbox and allowing more walls especially during the instinct would start making Kan Ra players more nervous about their actions and would actually force players to pull out the club outside of Instinct since they know the club when hit will not take away armor or make Aganos hit. Using the tactics you listed above does not solve this issue against Kan-Ra even when Instinct is activated. It keeps Aganos at a distance still and this whole Chunk up time does not exist against Kan-Ra since he can easily zone you back. Glaciers can do this too with shatter.

Okay, you apparently don’t know how to use the peacemaker effectively (no offense).

You should ONLY throw it if:

  • the enemy shoots a projectile at you.
  • you need space.
  • you need time to chunk up.

Otherwise, do NOT throw it. It’s far more useful as a near FULL-SCREEN 50/50 OVERHEAD/LOW MIXUP when you use s.HP and c.HP with it interchangeably for direct flat damage (~15% damage a hit, which may not sound like a lot, but it’s easier to get the 3 hits than you think, which would total to about ~45% damage out of your opponent’s healthbar). You want to keep your opponent at mid-screen to be most effective with it, not full-screen either. If you’re worried about them coming at you quickly, then simply use s.LP or s.MP with it 1st, since it’s faster and can be used as a chain-combo into the 2 above moves or the peacekeeper throw if blocked, or simply into a full-combo punish if they fail to block it.

The peacekeeper is NOT weak - most people just don’t know how to use it properly. Sure, if an opponent gets in close, it could cause problems, but Aganos can still rely on his incredibly fast s.LK or c.LK or even his j.MK, which works great as a crossup. Besides, the idea is simple - if you have the peacekeeper in your hand, then there should be no way the enemy is getting in on you… :wink: