Improving Sadira

Characters Sadira
1

Okay team, S3 is coming and I’m sure there are going to be some balance changes to be sure, so in what ways would you like Sadira to evolve?

My main gripe about Sadira is most of the cast from S1 to especially to S2 received buffs that would compliment and or compensate for the re-balancing of their character. Honestly, Sadira didn’t get much of anything. Yes they extended her KV meter while in the air, BUT it only adds one or two more hits and of course most people can break those combos now. They added a target combo, but did she really need it?

Most of her Unbreakables are gone. Shadow Web Cling gets easily stuffed in most situations (creating walls sometimes right where you just left). I still don’t understand why they turned her Jump Cancel Manuals into Auto-Doubles.

Then you consider that despite her air mobility, much of the cast has more than a few ways to knock her out of the air and in many ways has more anti-air priority than she has…

How can she be fixed? In what ways can we bring her inline with the rest of the cast?

I would like a quick rise move (that doesn’t require shadow meter). A ground Web Cling (shadow is completely invincible) and the distance you travel is based on the strength you use. This would help with the Sabrewulf crazy cross ups and such.

I would like to be able to Jump Cancel Manuals again. If TJ and Cinder can create near unbreakable combos with their strings, I think this should be give back to Sadira.

A hopeful is to press three buttons to get a Web. If Thunder can drop a mini instinct, and Glacius can melt, allowing Sadira to drop a web at any time would be a nice touch.

Just some thoughts.

2 Likes
2

IMO, Sadira it’s a very powerful character. She has almost no bad match ups, and even them aren’t extremely hard. IMO Kan-Ra it’s one of them, but again, a Kan-Ra player can say that once Sadira it’s in, it’s really hard to get her off.

Glacius, Thunder and Orchid got new moves in S2, but they also struggled in some match ups. Not all characters need a crucial change every patch, and the lack of changes in Sadira while still being a dangerous foe to any character shows her as one of the most rounded and well balanced characters of the game.

Maybe she could use some changes, of course, like frame data or minor tweaks but nothing dramatic. She really doesn’t need to.

All just in my opinion, of course.

2 Likes
3

I actually think Sadira is an extremely strong character, not top 5 but close.

I don’t think she needs any buffs, however, changes would be nice.

I think her target combo could be removed and replaced with something else such as slight increased range on sweep, more block stun on LWB, or faster start up on widows drop (down + MK)

I would even be ok with changing web cling, so instead of moving Sadira back and then launching her forwards, Sadira grabs onto a web and suspends herself for a certain duration of time (depending on the strength used). In this state she can use air normals but not air specials.

I wouldn’t give her anything major or change her instinct at all, because that would make her OP. Her Instinct is already debatably the best in the game, so making it better by any means would be pretty ridiculous. Also laying down a web trap? That’s insane, that’s like a free 50/50 after every sweep.

4

id be happy if they made her jump cancels manuals again instead of auto doubles. to me that was a huge deal when they changed that about her and pissed me off the most. i think we can do with that and maybe make shadow web cling better somehow. smart players will just lol and stuff it everytime if it doesnt Wile E. Coyote the hell out of me and get my ■■■ killed ACME style. after playing her for the longest time i think shes still very strong, people just dont know wtf to do against her sometimes and thats because im not even as good as i was with her (thanks Hisako)

5

I’ve always had a hard time playing as and fighting against Sadira, which is why I try to avoid her at all costs (under both circumstances). However, when I read this thread yesterday, I decided to give her another shot, and I learned some things - specifically, why I find her so hard and unwieldly to use when compared to other, more straightforward characters.

  1. Her double-jumps seem inconsistent. I press b+u or f+u, for example, and she often just jumps straight up instead.
  2. Her normal jump (sans double-jump) is terrible and has no height whatsoever.
  3. Her air-dagger momentum is all about timing; I find if I do the MP version immediately followed by a an attack of any kind, it’ll whiff. Instead, I have to time it right and wait. Why?
  4. Her ground game is just bad to the point that she relies on her air game.
  5. Her jump cancels have been difficult for me to say the least, in all respects (which is too bad, since it’s a key component to learning her). I can’t get the timing right while in instinct either. Why is this purposefully hard when it’s easily combo-breakable by the opponent?
  6. Her wall-jump special almost never goes where I need it to in order to counter-attack (and I know the distances).
  7. Her in-air d+MK often comes out when I don’t want it to.

In a nutshell, I don’t feel like she moves as smoothly as some other characters do - her own walk-speed, both forward and in reverse, is evidence of that (the poor animations for it is gag-inducing).

Of all the characters in the game, she STILL is the 1 character I absolutely don’t care to play.

Any advice you can give to try to change my mind, however, is welcome. :wink:

1 Like
6

Hey GG, hope everything is well with you. I’ll try to “answer” each of your items as best I can. Hopefully it can provide you some insight or perspective that you might not otherwise have had.

1 Like
7

@STORM179

Thanks for the input! If I didn’t address your replies below, it’s because I probably had nothing else to say on the matter. :wink:

2 - I find even with its shallow design, I still sail over the opponent at point-blank range because she still kicks or punches in the same direction. Now, if she would reverse direction, like TJ can do, or hit ambiguously that would be great, but I find that she often doesn’t in this case.

5 - I always tried attacking, then jumping, then attacking, and so on… You’re telling me all I have to do is hold it down!? No wonder! I’ll have to give this a try and get back to you! This kind of reminds me of people who don’t know how to play Minecraft because they can’t cut down a tree because they tap the button over and over again rather than hold it down like they’re supposed to… SMH

6 - I kind of wish this would work from the ground, as well as in the air…

7 - I admit that I haven’t disabled the right stick yet - it’s something I’ve been meaning to do for a while now, but keep forgetting to do.

walk speed - I just HATE the look of it; animations could be better, smoother, less rigid… Heck, ARIA’s a robot AI and has a better overall walk animation…

8

Lol. No problem man.

2 - That’s why I said “near” point blank :stuck_out_tongue: If you’re literally right on top of them, Sadie will sail over as well. Jumping HK has a reasonably deep cross-up hitbox, so that’s what you want to use here. Trust me - it can be quite ambiguous when done from the proper range off a single jump. I use it quite a bit in instinct in particular. Web to lock the opponent in place before I jump, then tag them with the cross-up HK.

5 - Yep :smile: Just hold up and mash

6 - You can technically tiger knee web cling the same way you can a widow’s bite, which will result in an instant-air web cling that hits the wall and skims the ground pretty closely. The range on this is limited though, so I haven’t found too much use for it. There are generally easier ways to get in.

And lastly, Aria has the sexy model strut going on - I’d say she probably has my favorite walk animation in the game :grin:

9

@STORM179

Yeah, after going back, I figured out the whole HK crossover thing - I’ll be remembering that 1. As for 5, still not working. If I attack and press up to jump cancel, she’ll actualy jump instead of going into the next attack. If I try and jump 1st and then attack while holding up, she just keeps jumping (if I’m lucky, she might do an attack in the air. For the most part, I have more success with the method I mentioned earlier.

10

With respect to the OP, I don’t actually think Sadira needs anything new going into S3, and I certainly wouldn’t say she’s in need of “fixing”. I personally think she’s top 5 in the game right now - solid manual options (particularly during juggles and in instinct), good damage, strong vortex, 2nd best instinct in the game.

I think one of the most under-mentioned (or appreciated) changes to Sadie was in the way damage gets calculated. The first-hit scaling implemented in S2 along with level 5 enders made her into one of the hardest hitting characters in the game. Sadira wracks up ender levels fast, and she cashes out very well with shadow recluse.

A lot of times we complain about the additions she got in relation to her nerfs, but overall I think Sadira came out stronger in S2 than she would have been as S1 Sadira without the unbreakables or safe counter breakers. She hits like a truck, and even though shadow web cling is nowhere near the best “reversal” in the game, it has its uses even in high level play. Sadira is very strong - she may not have gotten anything too flashy or that feels super game-changing, but the changes she did get in addition to her newfound damage make her among the most dangerous characters in the cast IMO.

A drop-anytime web would be so broken it’s not even funny. JC manuals would be nice to see, but I don’t think they’d be in the current spirit of the game. Even TJ has to follow rules within his combos, and Cinder almost always has to use heavies at some point to cash out his juggle shenanigans. Sadira’s JC manuals are pure guess-breaks, where the potential for missing is a massive amount of damage. They were basically TJ’s original autobarrage before autobarrage was a thing.

11

@GalacticGeek

From your description, it sounds like you’re trying to get JC autos without being in-combo. JC’s will only come out if the opponent is in block stun (where they’ll be JC manuals), being juggled (where they’ll be JC manuals), or within an active combo (in which case you’ll get JC autodoubles. If you just tag an opponent with a stray normal and try to JC it, you won’t get anything.

Try this combo:
Demon blade->heavy AD->heavy AD->heavy AD->etc->ender

Do the demon blade, then your heavy autodouble. While the autodouble is animating, simply hold up and continue mashing the button for heavy AD. This should be easy, but if you’re using triggers for heavies then you may want to try with mediums instead. After you start holding up you should not be releasing it - simply keep holding and mash the button you want to come out next repeatedly.

12

I like Sadira a lot from a conceptual standpoint. The air is her territory and she has a variety of ways to get you in the air.

Thing is, with the juggling capabilities of other characters, she could maybe use a few more options in the air.

Maybe she could get a context special move in air, like down/toward K. The context being 1. That Sadira launched the opponent from the ground first and 2. The auto you choose dictates the special move she does with down/forward kick.

So if you press LP/LK in mid air followed by down/toward any K: Breakable auto followed by mid air hurracanrana in mid air transitioning to down + MK animation where she actually lands on opponent.

If you press MP/MK in mid air followed by down/toward any K: Breakable auto followed by three kicks and a fourth hard kick that sends opponent to the ground for a hard knockdown.

If you press FP/FK in mid air followed by down/toward any K: Breakable auto followed by a forward flip kick that sends opponent to the ground. As she’s flipping, she fires out a web that so that when the opponent hits the ground, she’s pulled down to the opponent for a recapture*.

*NOTE: Recapture completely fills KV meter so next move must be an ender once she’s struck the opponent on her way down. (launcher ender causes low launch that cannot be followed up).

So would any of this make her OP? Maybe it’d make her a little scarier in air, but honestly? She’s supposed to be scary in the air. Scarier than any other character.

In reality though, giving her more to do in the air doesn’t give her much more in the way of unique tools. I’m not giving her something she doesn’t already have in air, except for a context heavy, severely limited recapture. Even the air throw requires a breakable auto before it.

So what’s the point? Again. It’s options. The idea of giving her more to do in the place where she’s most dominant without giving her new, unique tools that she definitely doesn’t need.

In fact, that’s kinda how I’d like to see IG approach a few of the older characters. Find areas where moves could look better, be more useful or increase the number of options in order to provide some variety without unbalancing characters.

Maybe you lower some damage if you have to in order to compensate, but I don’t think any characters need fixing. Improving? Sure. Anything can be improved upon. :smile:

13

What about an air grab, Decapre style ? That’s not much but she already is a monster, she don’t need to be improve.

14

Yep, that did the trick. I don’t know why I don’t see more of this - it’s SW’s feral doubles, but better because you can switch up the attacks (similar to TJ’s AB too, but without restriction). This makes it great for fishing lockouts!

15

well it’s super breakable. i mainly use it when my opponent gets locked out or counterbroken :stuck_out_tongue:

16

Jump Cancelling Auto-Doubles is very risky and as AnewHALOspartan mentioned, is best used once you get a lock out. It’s also great to keep pressure on an individual who is blocking. I will use them once I get a lock out and our Counter Breaker.
Sadira has some pretty cool hard to break combos that you should learn to pick up.

One I like to use is, Jumping HK > HP Manual > Instinct > Web > HK > Web > HK > Web > Damage Ender

17

BRB, gonna try this in training mode lol

18

As the others said, you don’t see more of this because it is quite breakable at high level. A lot of people will simply wait in the JC string to see something in particular, and then simply break that strength as soon as they see it. It has its uses (particularly in lockout situations), but spam-JC’s are definitely not free damage.

19

The timing is a bit difficult to fully pull off, but it does great damage. It’s breakable, but it is very hard to break if they miss the first heavy.

20

I’d be totally ok with all of these changes if her damage get’s lowered. More tools = less damage… Right Fulgore?