Putting a placemarker here for the Hisako Tech Thread. When the old forums become available, I will import all of the awesome strats and tech that were posted there, to this thread in the new forum!
In the meantime, feel free to share your Hisako juice with your fellow Onryos!
I’ll start off with this gem from the old Tech thread:
Hisako has an option select for Oki, made widely known by PaulB (one of the few Hisako players in the top-tier of KI players). Video is below. To expand on it a bit, you’ll want to use a long-ish range normal with a decent amount of startup frames (I.E. S.MK and S.HK) when you begin to practice this, as it will give you more time to get the “ORZ input” done before the 1st active frame of the meaty normal. It takes some getting used to but it’s pretty damned awesome to use against opponents with Invincible wakeups.
On the opponent’s wakeup this OS will either give you a meaty normal into ORZ or a catch-counter, depending on their wakeup being a non-invincible attack or an invincible wakeup (respectively). If the opponent tries to wake up with anything not invincible, the meaty normal will connect and Hisako will throw an ORZ opener. If the opponent wakes up with a DP reversal or similar move that would beat out the meaty, she will catch-counter. All of this is derived from the same series of inputs:
Meaty Normal + 3K - You want to hit the 3K button just slightly after the meaty normal button then
QCF+P - You need to get this input completed before the active frame of her meaty normal. This is why it’s good to practice this initially with a meaty normal that has a lot of startup frames.
So the whole thing is input incredibly fast, and the timing takes some getting used to. It’s a LOT easier to practice if you have a friend to do it with, but in lieu of that, you can do what PaulB here has done: Pick Jago VS. Hisako in training mode, with Hisako as your d-u-m-m-y, and then record your attempts at the inputs. If done correctly, Hisako will catch-counter your DP wakeup attempts, and your non-invincible wakeup attempts should be greeted with a meaty normal followed by a naginata to the face.
It takes some getting used to, but getting it to work is pretty rewarding.
EDIT: Can we please take a look at this forum’s wordfilter? I just had to put dashes in d-u-m-m-y to get around the filter. We need to be able to clearly discuss training d-u-m-m-i-e-s!
ok i get it now, thanks man! i gotta practice this ■■■■ then, ive already been through many situations where this OS couldve come in handy for me and turned a match around when needed. been using hisako alot lately, my luck with her has been alot better because of her playstyle
Stoked to have another Onryo in the ranks! Hisako is super fun to play, and definitely unique among the cast in terms of playstyle. She definitely takes some investment in time (unless you’re a Makoto main from SF), but getting into her groove can be very rewarding.
Once you score a knockdown, here’s some things you might consider doing:
Influence: the light version of this grab is one of the fastest things in game, period. 2 frames. A great option against patient players who consistently block on their wakeup. It’s an opener with full Wrath meter.
Meaty Normals: Hisako has a few normals with a good amount of active frames, that work splendidly as meaty attacks. Hisako is very adept at turning successful meaty attacks into combos.
Possession: Once you’ve trained the opponent to expect a poke from your naginata on wakeup! Stand at your spacing for a meaty normal, and then pop Possession on their wakeup. The only correct guess is to wake up jumping, which is not something many people are prone to doing. Timing on this option is key.
Normal Throw: Hisako can either start short combos from her normal throw, or let it rock into a reset.
Safe Jump: Hisako has some dandy safe-jump setups. All of us Onryos should definitely spend time experimenting with this.
Air ORZ: Hits overhead and has crazy frame advantage. The multiple strengths give you an option for cross-up (the Heavy version will cross up from toe-to-toe distance; with the medium version, “false” cross-ups are possible). Even if they manage to block this, you’re so plus that you can do any number of things. If they don’t block it… well, huzzah! You’re either getting a full combo becuase you had full Wrath meter, or you’re getting another delicious knockdown to restart the Oki game.
Airborne Meaties: Her airborne normals are so heavily plus, you can follow up in most circumstances. These make great bait for tick-throws. Mix these up with empty jumps when your opponent has ordered extra sauce. This is obviously not a good option for opponents that regularly utilize invincible wakeups… which brings me to:
Catch-Counters: Got an opponent who likes to hit buttons on wakeup? Got yourself a Jago that wakes up with DP every time? No sweat, Hisako eats that crap for breakfast. 3K tends to be the best option here, since most attacks that the opponent would wake up with are going to be mids or lows. You’d really only want 3P when the opponent makes a habit of waking up with an overhead (not really common whatsoever).
Mix up the options above, and use the option that best suits your situation!
Now of course, there’s a catch to all of this awesomeness: Hisako has no real options on HER wakeup. Your best bet in almost all cases is to block, backdash, or perhaps to jump if you anticipate a throw. In the case that you’re getting a meaty projectile thrown at you, Shadow ORZ is a good option; it’s projectile invincible until recovery, and the sum-buck travels practically full screen.
Here’s where I crash and burn. Ppl like to neutral jump and then do a late attack after I block something on the ground. If they dont, they grab after an empty jump. I get flustered with that, but I’m getting better. light influence should stop the grab yes? I also do cr.FP to make em quit that ■■■■
Ohhhhh I know the type of thing you’re talking about. Still learning how best to deal with it but here’s a few thoughts:
Influence is tricky to use as a reversal against a throw, mainly because of its range. Most characters seem to have grab ranges that exceed that of light Influence. So its speed (2 frame startup) has to be weighed against its range to determine if this will be a good option. Against a Jago that knows his throw range by heart? Nope, no way. Aganos? Forget it.
Jumping back can work in some circumstances. If they’re neutral jumping or doing an empty jump-in, their intention is most likely going to be to strike or grab you. If you’re jumping they can’t grab. They will often be inclined to chase you since you jumped backward, and that’s when a Heavy Air-ORZ can be used to smack them in the nose like the bad dog they are. If they don’t give chase then you’re still fine; if you ORZ’d in the air anyway, you’re still plus-frames; if you didn’t, you’re going to be in good range to use Hisako’s long range normals.
Cr.FP and Cr.MP are both great options to knock them out of the air and discourage them from these jumpy shenanigans. I’d say that simply anti-airing them is almost always the best option, but due to exterraneous circumstances that’s not always possible. But when you have the opportunity, go for it.
Don’t be afraid to go airborne. Hisako has excellent air mobility, and her airborne attacks are frame advantaged like mad. She has great air-to-air options as well. Oh, and Wrath meter regenerates while you’re airborne. Between the frame advantages, the wall-jump, and the meter regen, it certainly seems like the Devs meant for Hisako to spend a decent amount of time in the sky. (You’re a Sadira main so you will probably be super comfortable floating around like a maniac)
It is worth noting that all strengths of influence EXCEPT the shadow version are throw invulnerable. Whereas a light influence may not have enough range to catch the opponent (and has a very short throw invulnerable window due to its high speed) the heavier versions will do the job whilst still beating throws. As you use heavier versions you become less likely to beat out another move if you made the wrong read but your likelihood of beating throws increases.
I find that simply blocking on wakeup is her best option, with you being prepped to AA them if they decide they want to neutral jump on you. Everything else is a legit hard read, and if you guess wrong you’ll tend to eat a full combo punish. Light influence is a decent “reversal” if they don’t have a button out, but it can get you seriously messed up if you’re wrong on the read. Her backdash has invincibility, but is not particularly far and seems to lag a bit I feel. You won’t be back dashing out of all that much with her in my experience.
In terms of beating out throws with influence, I think medium is really the only one you should use for this purpose. Light influence is so fast that it is very throwable - it loses those throw-invincible frames pretty quickly, and is super short range. Heavy influence is too slow on startup - I’ve been tossed out of it a few times because I used it too late. Medium influence is 6 frames I believe, and since most throws are 5 the timing usually works out pretty well. As others have said though, the terrible range of influence in general means that several characters can kind of safely try and throw you, and the best you can hope for would be a double whiff. It is a good punish if you can manage it, but isn’t necessarily the easiest thing to do.
I’ve been lazy with updating the calculations, they’re trash now. They are now subject to much more scaling and only do about 2-4% extra tops. You still get more damage from wallsplat>influence than the actual influence ender, and you keep positioning (and actually take them out of the corner a bit so you can get crossups).
@STORM179 AFAIK heavy influence is throw invulnerable from frame 1, if you are getting thrown then you aren’t actually getting the move out.
Hm. Will definitely try that out in practice - pretty sure I’ve seen the animation actually starting up (and heard the influence “grunt”) before getting chucked before. I’m always open to being wrong though - this would actually be pretty good for her, as it would make heavy influence better in all situations where you expect a throw. Better damage and more range.
@Marbledecker: how do you know I’m not just some random interloper playing a former contributor to the old Hisako tech thread??? #conspiracy
Yeah I’m also pretty sure that all versions of influence (except shadow) are fully throw invincible from startup to their first active frame. This means you should always use heavy (for added range) if you are trying to beat a throw. Light should be reserved for surprise mixups, like after a dash, because its range is super short.
thanks for the information guys, i had a great run last night but then got into a damned losing streak lol. i slaughtered more than i lost at least, maybe broke even. still continuing to learn and i have yet to break into her advanced tech regarding instinct. speaking of which…would be awesome to know what are some nice BnB combos shes got while that is active!