Yeah, but now that I know that you are going to be more reliant on that button, I’m gonna have to go to the lab and see if I can react to it, if not stop it at all. Or just Backdash > Walk up Grab. (Which I actually found out fighting TrymyAI, is a viable reaction to reading Hisako’s grabs, but only works a couple of times.)
Nah, its utility is the same as before, so you’ll see it at the same frequency. As I said, it wasn’t like I wasn’t using it before - more that I was, and then would go “crap” if I happened to drop the link into ORZ.
It’s a fast button and generally done meaty, so definitely not reactable. Backdash will get you out of it, but I don’t think Jago’s (or anyone’s really) recovers fast enough for you to punish a whiffed meaty cr. MK. Against an opponent who isn’t hiding an OS counter within it (i.e. me), your absolute best punish against it would be to simply windkick over it on wakeup. A generally safer bet (Hisako has other meaty buttons after all) if you’re really anticipating the meaty is to simply DP.
As with all things Hisako though, I’m generally more than free to wrath cancel it whenever I feel like it. You know, because I actually manage my wrath and whatnot, and rather enjoy punishing DP’s with counter
LOL That’s the only thing! You seem to have this 6th Sense when I’m going to DP. I swear, I won’t DP for the whole match, and use normals and windkicks, and as soon as I’m like, “OK! DP time!”, my poor Jago gets the blunt force of Hisako’s Naginata to the face.
Haha. Comes with the territory of playing her. A lot of Hisako’s gameplan is dependent on scaring the opponent into doing what you want, particularly on their wakeup. When the character’s game plan revolves around her oki pressure, you start to get a sense for when people want to do certain things - when they want to jump out, when they’re feeling particularly pressured or frustrated, when they’re hitting that desperate point where they just want to do something to get you off of them.
I think great Hisako play is dependent on being able to read those moods in your opponent. If you have the read then you can beat anyone. If you don’t, you’re probably about to lose, or at the very least have a very difficult match in front of you.
It appears that a lot of the videos in this thread have been made private. In fact, it seems that PaulB’s youtube is now private. Anyone have any other video resources for Hisako tech? This thread has been eye opening, and I would love to see vids of this stuff.
That’s sad - lots of good stuff on that channel.
I will soon be in the business of making Hisako videos again - just need to get some software/hardware issues worked out!
I do have some stuff on my YouTube channel already though, hopefully you can find something helpful there! https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCDowokhK_YQHvXkMZ4_RyHA
If you see anything going on in the match footage that you have questions about, hit me up!
Also - I linked a bunch of threads, some containing videos, in the stickied Hisako Tech thread that Finchomatic posted.
Happy to have another Hisako around these parts, cheers!
Probably late to the party on this one, but figured it’d be a good thing to share with everyone.
It’s a pretty well-known fact that Hisako cannot manual after her non-recap/counter openers, but what she can do is delay her linkers after opener to such an extent that you get effectively the same result. You can delay the absolute hell out of the linker after the ORZ opener in particular, though you can also wait a bit on the full-wrath influence opener as well.
I’ve been trying it out, both offline at CEO and online, and I’ve found that it is really, really, good, and does a great job of generating timing lockouts. Influence is the preferred linker to use here, as it has that awkward gap before it hits anyway (making it even easier to get a timing lockout), and if you miss it, you’ll wind up with a command grab reset instead.
EDIT: she can actually manual after ORZ opener, but it’s pretty weird timing and you have less manual options. I’d still recommend using the delayed linker.
“New” Hisako tech courtesy of LeChatNoir out of France. I saw it in a tournament two weeks ago and promptly stole it, and have been using it to great effect since.
Hisako actually does have a frame trap coming out of ORZ. After certain parts and variations of her rekka hits, she is able to cancel into shadow influence, which will then hit the opponent just as they are coming out of blockstun. Basically, you cancel the very tip of the rekka’s active frames into shadow command grab. Because you are canceling from the edge of active frames, the opponent doesn’t actually exit blockstun until Hisako has already begun crawling towards them right before the screen freeze, i.e., if they tried to do anything other than backdash, DP, or jump in reaction to your ORZ string (which is stupidly negative), then they just got hit. Below are the rekka strings you can do this from:
Heavy (counter hit) rekka - after second or third hit
Medium (overhead) rekka - after second hit only. Not possible if overhead used for third hit
Light (low) rekka - no cancels that will hit possible
Basically, this frame trap only works if the active frames and blockstun imposed on the opponent works out such that you have enough active frames to cancel into shadow influence, but the opponent isn’t locked in blockstun for the 6 frames it takes for shadow influence to hit. So the reason the cancels don’t work where they do is because if you cancel into shadow influence, then shadow influence “hits” while the opponent is still in blockstun and you’re getting punished. As always - feel free to prove me wrong on which combinations are possible if I’ve made a mistake anywhere.
The nice thing about this frame trap is that it allows us to take a move that is super negative (least negative ORZ third hit is heavy, which is -10 on block) and attack from it. Double bonus is that Hisako actually builds a crapton of meter from having rekkas blocked, so it’s often pretty easy to have the bar to do this cancel. Once you have an opponent afraid to sit still or push buttons after your rekkas, you’re now able to indulge in rekka pressure even when you really shouldn’t be able to.
Again, when done properly, this will beat any non-DP or non-throw-invincible attempt to punish your rekka. If they try to jab, then the shadow influence will hit them before the button becomes active. The timing takes a little bit of getting used to (must cancel at edge of active frames, as too early will have you trying to throw someone still in blockstun, and you cannot cancel into anything once you hit recovery frames), but this is a very strong mix-up option available to you if you have a bar of shadow.
Ok I am stealing that tech right now along with some taunt mid combo tech I learnt from KI4Life and some anti air combos from him as well.
Yo that is friggin sick. Definitely gonna try doing this.
I am assuming this is from opener on ryo zan right?
Taking notes. I REFUSE to get hit by this
You’re going to get hit by this
I will not get hit by this. You can’t hit je if I am off the map XD STAGE ULTRAAAA
Lol. Your only option to never get hit by this is to jump or DP every time Hisako throws out three rekkas (and for the record, she can also do it after the second rekka). So either you let her go being -10 right in front of you, or you DP like a madman every time and take the punish from the counter or descent cancels that inevitably start popping up.
I’m good with either way really
takes more notes
What about backdash?
Also a viable escape. You’ll never punish my rekka doing that though, which means now I get to rekka in your face for free.
This frame trap is like any other - just because Jago can DP after a windkick doesn’t mean you should never punish or push buttons after a windkick. The trick is to evaluate the tendencies and options available to the opponent and go from there. Which means accepting that on some level, you simply have to guess. It’s not good to always sit still and get hit by the shadow influence follow-up, but neither is it good to never punish a Hisako rekka if she has meter. You can’t let her get away with throwing out wildly unsafe mixup options at will.
Or you can get hit by the rekka lol.