Handling Pressure in KI. Any Tips?

I’ve been meaning to make this topic for a while but I just haven’t figured out a way to handle it; As a Glacius player one of the main things that I have to do is begin to set some space between myself and my opponent, which normally isn’t an issue because Glac’s jump is floaty enough to make that happen. I do my thing with hail/shatters/charges when needed, but characters like Jago with near Full-Screen wind kicks, teleporting characters (though I feel that a puddle punch/ c.HP sets the teleporters in their place) and sliding characters (Orchid, Shago (specifically) and maybe Wulf?) give me a bit of trouble and eventually, I’m opened up into combos. Then the resets come, I try to block the oncoming mixups but there’s this feeling that i’m slipping and…sure enough, I slip and get worked until my first life bar is gone.

I think I have an issue with defending myself when it comes to being boxed against another character, and handling wall pressure. I can handle a mixup or two, and even the obvious jumping Jago (please stop jumping into Hail, Jago players) but damn, when I’m cross’d up, or caught in a mixup blockstring I just wear down until I’m…well screwed and it’s GG.

I play Glacius primarily, but I am also learning TJ Combo and Omen on the side (with the former getting more progress. god bless powerline.) I just have some questions on what I need to do regarding being pressured by:

–Rekka attacks (Hisako specifically, when to break and when not to break during one of her charge normals.)
–Being opened after a divekick/handling divekicks in general (Puddle Punch doesn’t seem to work against shago’s divekick,.)
–Being caught in blockstrings.

I would love some suggestions!

For rekka attacks,shadow counter(if Hisako has wrath,do not do this) and Hisako charge doubles? Don’t even try to break the autos. Break the linkers. For divekicks,just block them. They are really unsafe(unless Shago blocks them. Spinals is pretty unsafe unless he hits you in the ankle. Shadow counter blockstrings depending on which ones they are.

One of the hardest things to do when dealing with a pressure happy opponant is staying cool. Generally speaking in almost every case my opponant breaks or I ■■■■■ up, is while being pressured. However, if I keep a cool head (no pun intended Glacius fan) you can allow them to hang themselves.

Glacius has evolved over the last two years into an incredibly deadly beast. He’s always been good, but there was a time when people could disrespect him all day long (like Sadira). This is not the case now. He’s had tiny tweaks that go a LONG way.

One way to keep the pressure off is continously keep a hail above your head. Even if they connect an attack, upon release, in most cases, the hail will interrupt their attack and allow you turn the tables.

Also don’t forget Liquidize. All of the best Glacius players I’ve ever played use it to great success. You can dodge projectiles, sliding attacks…ect ect ect. This is a great way of turning that pressure against you into momentum for you.

Puddle punch is also great, but timing is key.

If you are being pressured just stay focused. Sometimes its even good to allow them to get in, as a hard knock down could allow you to get more options. Just don’t choke.

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I play Glacius too, and there is no question he is weak against pressure. There are situations where it actually makes sense to jump and take a hit just because it gets you out of a cross up situation.

One thing that I know I need to get better at is learning what block strings he can shadow counter and then using it more consistently.

Glacius has all kinds of options against pressure. He’s a “zoner” with great wake up tools too (something that drives me crazy in a fighter honestly). Compare him to TJ, Sadira or Aganos without chunks and your post is downright laughable.

Wow. I guess you could be more ridiculously unhelpful if you got help from a committee trying to design the worlds most unhelpful post. Thanks for your comments.

Incidentally, Glacius does not have great wake up tools and certainly not better wake up options than TJ or Sadira and the idea that his wake up options should be worse than chunkless Aganos is absurd. Aganos with a single chunk can do whatever he wants on wake up.

I’m sorry you are salty about losing to too many Glacius players but if you don’t have better stuff than this to add to the thread how about you just head back to the CAM thread and complain about another group of people that you pretend don’t beat you?

Edit: Just to make my own post a bit more helpful, here are some suggestions. Instead of saying “Glacius has great tools for dealing with pressure, this post is laughable” How about: "Glacius has great tools for dealing with pressure. For example… (explain at least one tool that Glacius has for dealing with pressure and how it is appropriately used). The latter is more challenging because it requires you to know what you are talking about. However, it has the advantage that, when people read it, they may actually think you know what you are talking about. It’s also actually helpful to the OP, who is making an honest request for help from our friendly community.

Puddle Punch can be stuffed out by most air normals and specials on wakeup, and Shoulder is mostly used to escape than something being used as an offensive tactic.

TJ has Tremor, windup punch, and man even s.LP is decent enough as a wakeup, more than Puddle Punch.

Temor on wakeup gets stuffed…Wind up punch gets stuffed. Roll gets thrown and can be stuffed. The only legitimate offensive weapon he has is a shadow uppercut, and that’s heaviily punishable on whiff…

Sorry, you’re wrong.

What? Roll is invulnerable up until recovery, though and you could easily follow up Roll into Windup or even Tremor without having to worry about the recovery frames. Roll > s.LP is just fine, but Roll > Spin Fist is just as good too.

Thinking on it, sure Tremor is unsafe when blocked so it’s potential as a wakeup option is risky, but compare that Puddle Punch which is just as unsafe on block as Tremor. The only thing Puddle Punch has going for it is the startup frames. All the opponent has to do is not jump and that’s a free Opener if you mess up Puddle Punch.

Windup and the roll is easily stuffed. Lol. What are you talking about?..Against good players, roll is how you escape (if you’re lucky)…You certainly don’t roll on wakeup to get offensive. Anyway, you guys can have this thread. It’s all good.

A wakeup uppercut is unsafe on whiff or block? Alert the presses, we’ve got ourselves a bad character that’s free on wakeup!

To actually speak about TJ’s wakeup for a sec, if you do a perfectly timed meaty attack and OS a forward traveling move, TJ must sit there and block it, because he has no actually invincible wakeups all the way to the hitting frame (of course, your pressure is probably also over at this point and you likely aren’t able to do any meaningful mixup at all). But sometimes meaties get mistimed in a game as frantic as KI, or sometimes you go for a non-meaty mixup because you have to in order to get damage, and in these cases, roll or shadow uppercut sneak through pretty often (we’re talking timing off by 1 or 2 frames and if you don’t have a safe jump setup, this will happen sometimes). So yeah, on paper TJ sucks on wakeup. In practice he gets away with a lot.

To the OP’s point, Glacius does suffer against pressure but it’s kind of necessary considering his other tools. There are certain pressure strings where you actually have the advantage (and in some cases, can punish); usually if someone does a full screen slide or wind kick, it’s unsafe on block and not only are you not actually in danger, but you can actually turn this mistake into damage. Against safe pressure, if you can find time to escape with a jump back normal (maybe after a combo break), you can reset your position. But you do kind of have to pick your spot with a strong defensive read to escape most characters in KI. Some of the time that will be a reversal puddle punch, or a throw, but often it will just have to be a combo break.

imo in KI no one has a bad wakeup game. Even Spinal which is called for a bad wakeup game has a lot of options for waking up and OS stuff like you said normally ends the pressure (if just blocked) or gets shadow countered if read. And dont forget that the game has invincible frames on backdash.

Imo in KI all characters have wakeup options.

Would you include Aria in your category?

Are you talking to me?

If so of course 2 out of 3 forms have a dp with invincibilty frames + a damn good backdash and even forward dash for mistimed crossup meaties and as everyone the option to block.

So you have wakeup options.

And to add what infil said - in theory some stuff may not work on paper but in a real match even in high level players can even wakeup with a lp cause the opponent expected someting different. Theory is often funny to talk about but in a real match with a game that fast even “on paper” bad wakeup moves can be good.

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I will echo what @LycanNaryko said. The wake up game in every fighter is a Rock Paper Scissors scenario. Certainly characters in KI have better and worse options but no one is completely out in the cold. And KI does move fast, so even if as @Infilament mentioned you have a high % option against a grounded opponent you may well miss it or get blocked, ending up out of position or at frame disadvantage. Plus, unlike other games KI gives you a second way out with a breaker.

I also never really thought about how important breaking is to Glacius’s position game until Infil said it, but it’s true. You are very likely to eat a combo at some point and a break will reset your position. I remember vaguely that people complained about working to get in and then getting tossed out by a breaker in S1. Glacius’s break also gives you the chance to put up a hail.

To keep the dialog going to address the OP, Glacius benefitted as much or more than anyone from the increase in poke damage that came with S2. Hail is still essentially just there to disrupt the opponent, but his ice lance and MK or HK jumps can and do wear out an opponent. The best way for Glacius to deal with pressure is to not get into it…

It’s also true that a perfectly timed crossover can hit Glacius before hail comes out, but often it’s not perfectly timed and you can catch someone. His shadow hail doesn’t do a ton of damage, but it has a psychological impact on people jumping over you willy nilly.

I think at high level play, the “obvious OS” of meaty normal xx forward traveling move should be shadow countered a lot more than it is. It’s kind of unfortunate that a lot of tournament players just roll the roulette on a wakeup option (sometimes with block) and test your OS timing, rather than try to understand the intent of the offensive player and make a smart decision.

I understand it’s KI and it’s a fast-paced scrambly game where optimal play is hard to do, so it makes sense if people miss it more often than not. But it almost never seems to happen. Oh well.

Thank you. I am still learning KI but I hate popular characters or overly used ones. Similar to OP I had the same type of questions but for Aria, that’s all. Thanks again…

Ah ok.

So yes - in Bladeform you have a dp and Shadow DP
In Mobility Form - You have the upwards hexagon fly thingy

These are the ones that have invincibilty.

Shadow hexagon thingy has armor.

Even though unlike most, she loses these wakeup options as the match progresses. But that’s another topic.

Maybe it’s just because im still learning but I sort of feel like Spinal is in similar situation when it comes to pressure. I feel like I need to stay on the offensive mostly because if I get cornered with him, there really isn’t much I can do. It seems like everything I try to do gets stuffed, other than shadowskeleport but it always gets blocked because you can see it coming from a mile away lol