i suggested it earlier to maybe remove the opener assist cause from what i have found every os is based exactly on the opener assist.
And to every player that has no fan view i brought up legit concerns that in its current state assist mode is just not right and tbh i can not believe that while testing the mode stuff like this did not got recognized cause i just played without and in certain situations (where i was mad at myself) i asked myself what happend if i had combo assist activated.
And to your example - yes thats fine and i like if it helps people like him. But i dont like that it can give better or advanced players a edge over someone that does not use - similar skill without it as basis of course. And from a competitive point of view this can not be ignored. And competition to me isnt just tournaments.
I think there are 2 ways of looking at this. It’s all a matter of perspective.
A) You find that you dislike not having manual controls, or that it doesn’t do anything to help you improve. Basically you find that you feel Combo Assist doesn’t work for you. You turn it off and don’t bother using it.
B) You find that Combo Assist opens up new possibilities for you, allows you to do things that you didn’t have the skill to execute consistently without it, basically doing its job. You keep it on to whatever varying degree you see fit.
As far as dealing with your opponent, whether or not they’re using Combo Assist…
If you think they may be using combo assist to get easy openers (or they are just good at opening you up), get defensive and watch for patterns so you can plan accordingly. If they start getting predictable or do something unsafe, punish.
If they do manage to open you up for a combo, then do the thing that this game has sold itself on as a feature (to the point where it became a meme) for its entire existence: Do a C-C-C-C-COMBO BREAKER! Regardless of whether they’re using Combo Assist or not, if their combo is just linkers and doubles, you’ll find a break point. If they’re someone who doesn’t know how to mix up combos with manuals and unique character traits and resets etc, then it won’t matter what control scheme they’re using.
When it comes to KI updates, I have a different philosophy than some. Instead of going to one side of the fence or the other, I generally try to look at any new updates, characters, buffs/nerfs/berfs, or features that are added to the game as neither positive or negative. I try to look at it as “Okay. This is in the game now. Can I utilize it, and/or how do I deal with it?” I admit I often fail at this, but it’s saved me a few headaches playing the game.
With the example of option select: Am I going to use it? Nope. I gave it a try for a few minutes and just couldn’t get comfortable with it. Could I still utilize it? Yeah, it means all the people I had to babysit and be gentle with the game before can now at least combo just as easily as I could about a year and a half ago, which means I can play with them more seriously and maybe teach them about meta stuff instead of saying "Oi, the A button’s at the bottom. This isn’t the Wii U, silly!"
Am I going to get miffed if I lose a match to someone I wouldn’t have before because they were using combo select? Probably not. If I lose to someone, I try to look at what I did wrong or the things they did that bent me out of shape. This is a game where I know that victory and defeat hinge on good decisions and/or tactical errors on my part.
It could be worse. After Pre Patch Model 1887’s Akimbo in MW2, I think I’ll live through some new players with easier buttons.
But again, perspective. I’ll do me and you’ll do you at the end of the day. Can’t really stop you from going through life, looking at the world in whatever way you see fit, and I’d be a buttmunch if I were going to try and make you stop doing that. Just think about it for a while.
Cheers, mate. I shall return to lurking in the thread.
(Speaking of thread, 500 posts holy cow this is getting traffic)
I think for mid tier level player, you are correct, but for intermediate to high level players, they have such quick reflexes, that when they see that roll under happen they immediately enter the opposite direction of B-F to F-B and they are still able to get that opener that they wanted. Granted it’s a quick read/hard read, but it’s not impossible. Though that is pretty high skill, which I think you are worried about because a beginner shouldn’t be able to do that right?
@Infilament, that seems like the exact reason this mode should exist. Sounds a lot like how I was trying to explain to my brother before CA came out on how to play the game. And he’s played KI2/KI Gold a lot in the past when we were younger and he was pretty decent at the game. So he kinda gets the idea of Opener → AD → Linker → Ender, but he kept getting lost in his combo. That part frustrated him because he understood the concept, but couldn’t execute.
I’ve been on vacation so I haven’t had a chance to use it, but I almost guarantee that I won’t. I’ve played KI since launch and I am comfortable with the control scheme to not use it. I know that I am not the only one that feels that way.
To be honest what really chaps my hide in KI is playing exhibition matches against someone that feels each time they win they need to rock out a full/double/triple ultra EVERY TIME. If there was a way to force them to do ultra ender so we can start the next match, that would be much better.
yes its one particualr high level skill but even high level players can miss these opportunities or play high level with other strengths than getting those situations right. So they can have a weak point in that area and the game can take care of this weakness. But if i dont have the weakness in this area but in a area where the game can not take care of then stuff like CA become a tool that has too much impact on advanced level.
And tbh the situation was simply ambigious and covered by the flame effect of the axe kick. I did not see if i crossed under. Ambigious situations happen even or especially in high level games.
So Im concerned about advanced players including high skill. It should not be a thing to ask was that the game or you? If it was you than damn that was pretty awesome - was it the game then mmmmhhh…
No. No that’s now what a scub means, at least not exclusively. I described the intended meaning so that you do not use the improperly used derogatory connotation.Do not change its meaning because you may be unaware of the term’s history (Oh what a dialogue on what “to nerf” REALLY means we could have.)
[quote]The derogatory term “scrub” means several different things.
One definition is someone (especially a game player) who is not good at something (especially a game). By this definition, we all start out as scrubs, and there is certainly no shame in that. I mean the term differently, though.A scrub is a player who is handicapped by self-imposed rules that the game knows nothing about. A scrub does not play to win.
Now, everyone begins as a poor player—it takes time to learn a game to get to a point where you know what you’re doing. There is the mistaken notion, though, that by merely continuing to play or “learn” the game, one can become a top player. In reality, the “scrub” has many more mental obstacles to overcome than anything actually going on during the game.
The scrub has lost the game even before it starts. He’s lost the game even before deciding which game to play. His problem? He does not play to win. The scrub would take great issue with this statement for he usually believes that he is playing to win, but he is bound up by an intricate construct of fictitious rules that prevents him from ever truly competing. These made-up rules vary from game to game, of course, but their character remains constant. *
[/quote]
I do suggest reading more of the article… All of Sirlin’s articles on game design and his take on modifying SFIITHD like how IG is changing KI from season to season.
It’s obvious (to me) they don’t agree on everything, but they certainly do a lot in concessions to balancing FUN, intelligent inputs and of course, competitive outcomes.
PS: Does anyone know the difference between a mathematician problem and a real world problem? The reason I ask is for me, it paints the picture of the continuing “arguement”;
A mathematician problem is something you can make up, prove it’s a problem, prove there’s a solution… But not actually prove it relates to the real world (most times, it’s obvious there is no real world connection, other times, not so much.)
A real problem is just that, something we can quantify through data, dissect, and maybe come up with a solution for.
For a real game, real problems are more an issue than mathematician problems.
As an example, I believe that a game like BlazBlue on XB1 has two control schemes: technical type and stylish type. The Stylish type also allows easier execution of certain moves with a single button press.
I do not know if BlazBlue switches between ‘super technical’ and ‘a bit less technical’, or between ‘easy already’ and ‘for the lazy’. But the concept of multiple control schemes is nothing new in a FG.
If KI had CA from the start I would have no hesitation or wish for the current unassisted scheme. It would probably not even have this name …
Just yesterday, I beat a guy 10x over, beating out his Shago, Hisako, Riptor, Kan Ra, and others - as a result of this, he called me a scrub (among numerous other unsavory things). My apparent crime (according to him)? Playiing as a lvl. 50 character in exhibition mode (my Aganos, naturally) and throwing him a lot. He called it cheap. I explained to him that I was playing said lvl. 50 golem to increase the character’s shadow stats (which was absolutely true) and that the throws were a completely normal, accepted, and easily counterable game mechanic. He told me all killer-ranked players were the same and that I was no exception. I found this ironic because he had the word “killer” in his gamertag. I did my best to not let him get to me by being polite, explaining things, offering help, and even wishing him well during the holidays. My reward? Numerous, emotionally-fueled (and absolutely reportable) text messages. Eventually, even I had had enough and blocked him.
The reason I mention this is because of the 2 definitions of the word “scrub” that you show in your post. From his perspective, I fit 1 defition, whereas I thought he was actually a scrub himself and fit the other definition.
Actually, his definition was correct and even matched Sirlin. Scrubs ‘handicap’ with self-imposed rules, try to guilt others into following those arbitrary rules because “what’s fair and what’s cheap” when really anything the game allows should fly.
“Stop you from using a tactic the game allows”
is just another way of saying
“handicapped by self-imposed rules the game knows nothing about”
in this case the self-imposed rule not recognized by the game is “omg that is a cheap tactic!”
with that being said, I understand why they will Jump in, but then that sounds like something the Dojo mode should Expand on before it gets to the point where Up + CAM = Auto combos and make it a stander idea other then a ‘use at the right time’ type of deal.
In fact Dojo mode is horribly under Optimized as yes all fighters share the same base mechanics, But each one has their own play style that when matched up sets up the underline meta-game for that match.
Example : Jago Vs Saberwulf Mata game = Cross up counters counters / Combo mix ups.
Jago must stop Saberwulf from destroying his guard wile Saberwulf has to throw him into a Vortex like game.
IF Jago can’t Keep his guard up saberwulf wins.
IF saberwulf is to predicable Jago wins.
something like that.
Yeppers, But we have to keep in mind that even with CAM, they can still have that one bad game where someone can see what they are going to do so even with that I think Dojo Made needs to be expanded.
something like SF4 Trial mode where it gives you a list of combos and tects that you can do.
One with CAM on then after a bit, again with CAM off.
Just got the game today so the first time I played it was with this new Assist thing that recently released. I obviously can’t say too much since I don’t know what the game was like previously, but I still think the better player will win regardless of this new mode if they have decent fundamentals and have experience with fighters.
I think its cool because all of us who want to really learn the game can, but when we have friends over who don’t really play fighters or anything they can still kind of play around with it and have some fun and not end up getting frustrated and quit because they can’t do quarter circle motion lol
There aren’t reason to a veteran player turn off the assist mode. The game needs to show who is using combo assist, and who isnot using that. Otherwise the combo assist is something pathetic.
When we play Marvel Vs Capcom for example, we know who is using “easy mode” and who isnt
A veteran player, he or she is able to play better using the assist mode, because when a person use the assist mode, drop combos for example it becames something impossible, even pro players can drop combos. Then I conclude that assist mode, give a support for veteran players, of course, not so much, but it gives a little support, and we need to know on ranked who is using that, it will estimulate people stopping use it, and ONLY new players will use.
I’m not complaining or supporting with this statement. But I just think it will be worthwhile to share its impact on my play with KI.
When this patch was released I was barely Killer, and did it with Aganos who is at level 50. I switched to Spinal recently. Right when the patch came out I got him to level 14 i think it was. I read the guide and good time in practice mode too. I NEVER perform manuals in KI. A technique i haven’t even tried to master. With Spinal it was different because of his traits. Now I can’t do them with CAM. You have to time it like you would a normal manual i guess and i can’t do that now. It has increased my Aganos’ play a bit becuase I mix my combos up with more moves and don’t drop the occasional combo which didn’t happen often with him for me.
I hope people are not thinking that the level of the charcter (i.e, lvl 50 anyone) is any indication of skill level in this game. All that means is that said player has used that character a lot in different modes. You can have a level 2 character and be amazing just because you’re good at games in general (i.e. maximillian_dood) or you can have a lvl 50 character and be so so (i.e. me)
