Can you go back to being banned please?
I donât know why IG likes building characters that stop you from playing the game. Thatâs what KanRa, Aria, Gargos, and Arbiter all do. There is a large set of characters that donât have the tools to cope with the dominant neutral these characters possess.
Itâs not fun being stuck in traps, assist setups that you canât even DP, minion, or grenade vortexes. That stuff sucks the fun and competition right out of the game.
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Bass knows what he is doing. He is most definitely aware he can power devour both of those things but Sleep didnât really use portal punches and when minions were out he was up close to Bass, so trying to eat minion hits leaves him open for Gargos to attack.
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Thatâs ok. 
Remember when you all thought Tusk was good? People are great at jumping to dumb conclusions quickly.
I donât really have an educated opinion on whether Gargos is too strong yet. Iâd prefer to let things play out for a bit before reaching any firm conclusions on the matter. I donât get the impression that Gargos has been terrorizing events prior to now, or that the competitive scene has really explored the matchup thoroughly.
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Winning a tourney with the help of A.I. Is something I never thought about .
I think sleep could have still won without using Gargos but he did it anyway because it was the easier option.
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You mean characters that completely ignore neutral lol
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Spinal STOPS the opponent from gaining instinct and meter. That means if Bass had held Sleep in the corner for more than 2 combos, Sleep would have NEVER been able to recover. But Bass failed to do that. So he lost. If it werent for Sleeps impressive escapes, shadow counters, breakers, and confirms, Sleep would have never won that MU.
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Gargos isnât overpowered. Sleep was hardly the only Gargos at EVO - Rico ran him for almost the entire tournament and there were a few others sprinkled throughout pools. All of them achieved greater and lesser success pretty much commensurate with their skills.
What Gargos is is just incredibly momentum based. When he gets knocked down he is absolutely free, with some of (if not the) worst defense in the game. That means a lot in a game where oki pressure is already so strong. Gargos can and does lose whole fights off of getting touched once. On the flip side, Gargos with 2 minions out+instinct is basically GG.
Super-heavy momentum swings is not a new or untested character design philosophy, and itâs not inherently unbalanced when done right. Your job as the player is to keep Gargos from gaining that critical mass of nonsense that renders him an unstoppable force of destruction. This isnât S1-S2 Spinalâs skulls or Fulgore with his pips - there is no guarantee that Gargos will ever do well enough to get the dreaded 2 minion combo out. Getting a single one out is simple enough, but 1 minion can be dealt with relatively easily if the player is good and makes the right choices. Even 2 minions can be navigated successfully if you are observant and focus on bringing them down. But the key point is that for Gargos to have 2 minions out, it means he has to some extent won in the neutral already, and you have failed in your task to keep him weak and relatively honest.
Your mileage may vary with this design philosophy, and no, dealing with Gargos plus McStabby and Fatty certainly isnât âfunâ. But getting locked down by Spinal in the corner isnât much fun either. Youâre in the corner because something went wrong in the neutral and/or defensively, same as youâre staring at two minions because something went wrong in the neutral and/or offensively. Gargos got to be so powerful in the first place because he did well in the neutral, and now you have to deal with the consequences.
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I donât think it is fair to say Gargos = free Evo.
Iâm sure there are many Gargos players that signed up to compete that would disagree with you.
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Sleep earned his win. To say otherwise is actually insulting, not to mention the idea that Bass is the âtrueâ EVO champion when he lost convincingly.
Gargos is brutal no doubt, but it has to be in the right hands. Past champion and renowned KI veteran Rico Suave didnât even qualify into Top 8 when using Gargos.
Also, letâs not forget that thereâs always someone who says a character is cheap after a tournament⊠Fulgore, Jago, now Gargos⊠It never ceases to amaze me that if someone thought long enough, they would realize the value of the player.
Sleep has been coming in Top 3 in so many tournaments that he finally earned his victory after hard work and dedication. Donât slander it by proclaiming he used a cheap character. Admittedly, Bass simply didnât have what it took to beat Sleep.
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I think calling a character too powerful and not fun are two very different things. Itâs much harder to debate someone about what is fun and what isnât.
KI has a bunch of mechanics and craziness that can often make things ridiculously difficult on defense. And I personally sympathize with people who find dealing with such mechanics as un-fun. But itâs what makes KI, KI. The vast majority of these sitations are just a fraction of the match and not itâs entirety. Usually when such mechanics take up more of the match they get toned down (S2 Wulf instinct for example). So I have confidence that IG will tone down gargos if he turns into minion mania. For now it remains to be seen. What we know for sure is that Sleep and Bass are damn good players who belonged in the finals.
And shout out to @llPaulBll I was doubting you and notching your negativity to a lack of adjustment to the new mechanics. You proved youâre still a top player and your matches were a lot of fun to watch. I hope you stick with the scene for a bit and wait to see how S3 turns out after the dust settles from the new characters and patches.
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I donât think so. He made no attempt to try and counteract the minions with shadow shield bash. And power devour only really works from the distance. Which sleep wasnât giving him anyway.
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Thatâs pretty much what I said. He couldnât power devour minions because Sleep was not staying away like Gargos tend to do, otherwise he could have sat there and filled up his skull stock but Sleep was staying on him.
Of course. Because sleep knew that he couldnât play the long range game with power devour in play. BUTâŠit also meant that the moment bass dropped power devour regardless of skull count he would be locked down by minions.
Get rid of the minions. Priority one.
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So I just rewatched it. YeahâŠbass couldnât handle minions properly. It shows. He never once used shadow shield bash. Then thereâs also gargosâ bugs still.
There is one thing howeverâŠis spinalâs low searing skull supposed to be locked in the corner? Because the Meduim version of searing skull doesnât cause a lock-in. Even while in the corner. Nor does the heavy version.
Ki grand finals really wasnât that entertaining i wish i could have seen a better fight than A.I doing most of the workâŠa char donât need a wake if u canât knock them down to begin with⊠the minons dont feel like a set up or some kinda plan is just do it and let some random stuff happen is like the game went form streetfighter to mkx in the matter of a few months
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I feel like the last half-sentence of your argument makes the whole thing invalid. How was KI ever anything like Streetfighter? And where in MKX is there minion A.I.s fighting for you?
The minions are earned, you dont start with them. And Gargos gives the opponent meter the entire game, so its not like you get stuck with no options.
As Iâve always said, and hopefully people will get it now. I donât complain because I win or lose or âcanât adjustâ. My characters have been constantly nerfed throughout all 3 seasons. I criticize because I love the game and I want it to succeed.
Now you see the negative attention Gargos is giving the game. Also did you see Ultra David tweeting about how âdumbâ Arbiter is during GF? That type of negative attention is bad, bad, bad.
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In all respect, only a real scrub will call Gargos broken. I am harsh but honest. You also seem to be salty sleep won., you gotta hold it bro. Sleep is the real MVP. also GIT GUD.
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