Flip out, Stagger, & Guessing Games making up 90% of KI now?

I can’t say that I agree that it’s faster (Given that I’m always on edge for the reset pause) it’s up for debate though!! , but I am in agreeance with the fact that it is certainly unbreakable. That’s what I mean by contrived though… a button pressed that is meant to force a reset. It’s certainly not a traditional “reset” by any means. I think this is what has so many of the enthusiast flustered… (Well, at least per my inbox.) I don’t see this changing, so I imagine the name of the game is simply ADAPT.

Okay, what about this classic SF4 reset:

Sakura hit-confirms into EX tatsu, then does jump LP and forces you to land into a multi-way mixup.

This is basically flipout in all but name; you press a specific button to change a soft knockdown situation into an air reset situation, and then take advantage of it. Is this “contrived” in your opinion?

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In all honesty, I never really got into the SF4 games at all, so I have very little knowledge of their mechanics. However, based on your description of the scenario, I would say it is contrived, yes. BTW what’s the sacrifice for the scenario mentioned? Is there one?

Fair enough. How about a similar situation in SF5 (if you have tried your hand at that game)? Cammy can air reset you after landing EX dive kick and then go for a mixup. Chun can anti-air you with st.LK and then dash under you for a crossup (or stay on the same side, or throw).

I suppose the point I want to make is that these are pretty common situations in all 2D fighting games. I’d be happy to list more examples from other games if you’d like more.

After EX tatsu, Sakura can also do a different combo that leads to a hard knockdown and a different meaty setup. Eventually, more players tended to prefer this, as there were unblockables after it (yay SF4 engine).

But until all those setups were found, there was no sacrifice for doing this. If you didn’t have ultra to combo, this was a good followup choice.

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If you’re curious, @CHANCHULA, here’s a sample video of what some of those Sakura resets look like. I don’t think these are particularly optimal or anything, but if you just want to see what it looks like, here you go. I don’t know why the video doesn’t show it, but it’s very easy to stay in the front on all these setups.

There is – in fact Microsoft announced it at E3 this year. It’s called the KI Ultra Tour, and they’re always looking to expand its player base. :wink:

Seriously though, the in-game modes you want are Exhibition and Lobbies, and you want to fill your friends list with competitive players to hit up for sets.

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Standing resets are a heck of a lot faster by my lights, and aren’t gate-kept by obvious break points either. Hisako command grab reset happens in 5 frames, anti-jumpout reset happens in 6, and fancy TK-ORZ reset to beat both cr.block and jumpout happens in 12 or so. Depending on what the lead-in is to each option, there is no pause to speak of. Wulf’s dash-through resets are also fast, and while you’ll see them, you don’t typically get to react to them. About the only reactable standing resets in the game are the overhead ones, and even those aren’t terribly slow for most characters.

Honestly, it sounds to me more like you’re just tired of beating up on less skilled players in Ranked. I’d personally love to fight a Thunder who opted for a 1-chance into flipout style - eventually I will block the mixup, or break the flipout, or get lucky on my break of the one chance, and I’m more than confident in my neutral to get me in and do real person damage to make up for however many times you opened me up. You won’t get that experience at lower levels of play, but at high level repeatedly opening someone up if all you’re doing is flipouts is not terribly viable. Even in a game with as potent an offense as KI, eventually you’ll get blocked and then you’ll have to play defense too.

TL:DR - like others have said, I think you should start seeking out and running sets with people who are closer to your own skill level. At a certain point Ranked becomes pretty redundant, and when you hit that level it’s better to actively look for and play people who will challenge you. Feel free to add me and we can play sometime. GT is the same as on here. :thumbsup:

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Looks JUST like flip out lmao. Holy ■■■■!! Didn’t know these were in SF4.

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I’m always down to level up!

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I personally am glad that he has it. I now have an answer to Orchid’s meaty overhead.

Shouldn’t Thunder have always had an answer to Orchid’s meaty overhead? Sammamish in S1 and S2 was high invulnerable. :open_mouth:

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Depends on the hitbox of the overhead and that of the dp.

Sammamish hitbox wouldn’t matter in the meaty example - it got clipped in start-up was always the issue. Orchid’s overhead might dip low enough to hit Thunder in the lower vulnerable box (relatively low-hitting mids like Sadira F+HK were good at stuffing it), but never actually saw that happen.

Well it takes precision to pull something like that off.

I always got hit in Season 2, but not anymore

Hey, I want to thank everyone, especially @CHANCHULA, @Infilament and @STORM179 for such a great and civil discussion. If you guys do play sets, you should post them online for us more casual players to watch!

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you know that sfv has nearly no hkd? Only in various situations you get a hkd - so there need to be some mixup setups to compensate for the missing vortex (which thank god is gone for the most part)

Sure SFV has its mixup heavy characters but SFV has a lot less guessing than KI S3.

And breaking down the neutral game to guessing where even dashes are labeled as a guess to make the guessing in KI S3 look a lot less is brainwashing.

The problem with KI is it has all the guessing SFV has and adds more on top of that with vortex and brainless setups, flipouts/stagger, the easiest resets in the history of fg (even accidental manual drops for some characters result in unwanted resets), breaking, counter breaking and and and.

Some like the amount of guessing in KI others say its too much guessing.

but dont try to downplay the amount just because other fight games have guessing.

The amount is what players like the op dont like not that there are guesses.

Geez, strong words, pal.

Was going to comment on the rest of your post… you know, have some nice, friendly conversation about the videogame, but there’s clearly no point if you think what I post on these forums is “brainwashing”.

Fu.ck man. This post really got to me. I think it’s time I seriously step away from the forums for a bit again. You win, dude.

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Read your stuff again - and then compare it to the Topic, the posts before, the word “honest” and leaving out KI in context of the core guessing.

There are no strong words from me - the Topic was about KI and guessing.

You came in and said guessing is at the core of every fighting game and brought up the SFV example (why not KI?) without mentioning that KI has the same guessing going on like SFV on that level. Leaving one out (KI) and showing that the prime game atm SFV has guessing at the core is brainwashing to me - why did you not chose KI only or both?

It how you present information. With simple words you can make SFV or any other Fighter look more guess heavy than KI. Cause your definition of “core of every fighting game” was left out.

So your post got me and i say what i dont like about such an approach in relation to the context.

You need to step back, look at what you’re doing right now, and ask yourself if it’s really appropriate.

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