Early Shin Hisako MU's

Well for Gargos I just sit back, build a bar, and shadow slice him when he portal punches. Has to be done as a read not on reaction but it works. If they wise up and stop portal punching when you have a bar then you can just gain some ground. For the wings, just sweep when you see Gargos jump, you’ll low profile it an avoid the pushback. If he didn’t do wings you still recover in time to anti-air him (assuming he jumped towards you.)

If you mean within the last 15 min or so i do remember playing a Shin Hisako but i think the name was different…

I did fight a Shinsako that started with that setup. And yes, that’s part of what can tilt the match to her favor. Parry is active all around her and has a good sized hitbox, so most meaty tech can be blown up. Maybe…she can try to stand outside the range and try to rekka punish the recovery or something. But even with that, there’s means Kim could use to fight that option.

Well played by the way.

7-3 winning match up. as far as i can tell, he actually has option on almost everything she does. Usually aganos’ main option is “dont let them get started”, which usually comes at a cost.

glacius does hail? medium chunk throw. dont let him get that started.

Shago fireball teleport/slide in? knock down, wall, dont let him out/get started. (same with fulgore though he has options on wake up.

wulf is trying to get in? stomp and up flick to keep him out. dont let him get in/get that started.

kan ra? bugs… throw chunk and roll in to confirm. Dont give him room for traps/to get that started etc…

hisako… is a trip… i feel like its the most 5-5 match up on the game. I use stomp a lot to keep her honest and not get countered, but whoever has the better counter read wins that one. You can tell by her spacing when shes gonna dash in command grab versus dash in shadow command grab (for the latter she stops around stomp distance and shadow command grabs in). However, once shes in the reset game is deadly so… dont let her get it started…

with shin hisako, outside of a couple shadow moves, doesnt have anything that i have to prevent from starting (from what i can tell). i can let her get her gameplan started and chunks ignore, flicks goes though projectiles as well as shadow ball and her heavies aren’t great. I just always feel like im good, not to mention if she doesnt have a shadow bar (and she tends to go full screen to get orb out) i can chunk up for free.

its still early, but ive never lost to a shinsako and even the dev’s said it’s a bad match up for her.

i 10-0’d chanchula with my mic off, and just heard him screaming at his mic about this match up not working (he was shinsako).

from my experience, its 7-3. If I’m wrong i would def say its 6-4. not even and DEF not losing (which is what the “dead wrong” argument came from)

Edit: side note, my lady and I watched all of KIWC together and absolutely loved your matches. We were losing our ■■■■ when it came down to the wire. Loved the hype :punch:

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Imo mira could be one of her worst match ups. Mist is op against all of Shins mix ups in and out of instinct. Her instinct grab is pretty much useless in the mu.

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Is it, though? Mist is such a risk these days, I can’t see it beeing too OP against anything, really.

It’s quite punishable if she reads correctly and instead of going for a crossup slash setup, goes for a meaty with a fireball backing her up. If the meaty is evaded by mist, she can punish on reaction, like other characters, no?

Haven’t tested any of this though, just theory fighting here xD

And in the neutral, I’d say shinsako’s FB should be an issue for Mira’s approach as it should go straight through all the bats. Or does the top bat make it over the FB?

Depending on where Mira mists it’ll be hard for Shin Hisako to get her fireball to go the right direction, and Mira’s mist on wake up places her outside of Shins range. Shins fireball does actually beat her bats but with meter Mira can punish the orb summon or orb attack with shadow bats to lock Shin down (if mira is outside the range of the fireball)

Yeah, her fireball won’t cover the mist, but it should allow shinsako to work around it. You can meaty fireball and wait to confirm a block/mist and try and punish accordingly/chase down.

This of course won’t work if she goes for a crossup slash setup, which has a lot of recovery. But, adapting to the matchup, I think shinsako should be able to keep Mira in check while also baiting the mist with the same setup of meaty fireball.

Yeah, shadow bats punishes a lot of stuff. Does it punish air orb as well if done low?

Dunno, just throwing a few ideas out there, haven’t played the MU at all, but I honestly don’t feel, in theory, that it should be all that hard for shinsako.

I don’t know that mist being able to escape most of Shinsako’s setups is all that dispositive of the match though - most characters can’t apply meaty pressure and lock down a Mira who wants to mist her way to freedom. It’s just one of those things you kind of take as it is when you fight the character.

I feel like Shinsako probably has some of the same strengths in this fight as she does with Omen. Mira’s standard neutral approaches are covered decently well by the cross slash projectile, so Shinsako should be able to force the character into non-standard approach styles and vectors that are a lot more restrained than is her custom. I think it’s always strong when a character makes you fight them differently than you have to fight everyone else.

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So far it’s aganos vs kim all over again for shin.

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Playing her so far aganos laughs in her face and raam goes even with her. Have yet to play this fight with omen

Yeah, that’s precisely what I’m thinking. I think Shinsako should be able to better condition Mira’s neutral than the other way around.

And the fact that Shinsako should be able to force mira to block a FB on wake up while also being ready to apply confirmed block pressure or chase down/punish mist attempts should also make her one of the chars that better conditions Mira’s wake up.

I’ll have to lab it out and see how practical any of this is, though.

Is it me or is she kind of perfect where she is balance wise? Strong but not op, has weaknesses but ways to overcome them. Nothing about her is too good, and none of her bad match ups beg for buffs (even if the Aganos mu is starting to seem goofy) She also surprisingly doesn’t make people salty even though you make them take complete guesses on wake up non-stop.

I kinda feel like this is the sort of thread the devs will read silently in the shadows but id tend to agree. Its early in her life and the only things i can say that really bother me are the threat of bugs. Which is funny because whatever higher power is out there decided it was cool to run me through a gauntlet of Shin Hisako’s in ranked yesterday to almost make me rethink the Kim matchup.

@MnTLetalis slightly off topic but id like to play that Kim v Aganos matchup sometime.

Any other character specialists wanna weigh in? @ItzTymeToDul, @SoSRaGnArOk

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Yeah, that was my original take on the character, and that hasn’t changed. She’s a strong character who’s got some legit dirt, but she’s also a very fair character, if that makes sense. She can do shenanigans, but they’re limited in good ways and if you block them (and most of it is blockable) then you are rewarded accordingly.

@SneerfulWater57 - the Sadira fight isn’t a ton of fun for Shinsako, but I expect it’s probably even. Her DP has a good amount of forward movement so it’s rather easy to cross up, but at the same time it is a meterless DP, and those are always good against Sadie if you know how to use them. The Omen fight felt fine as well - Shinsako doesn’t body his wakeup like Hisako does, but she manages the neutral better because of cross slash projectile.

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No. . . . . .no you don’t.

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Better to learn it than hide behind a 7-3 or 6-4 thought. I know the match sucks but losing to a counter-pick, average-with-the-character at best player is worse to me.

I’ll be home later. But dul is right. No point in torturing yourself with this one

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See i think KI has a really balance cast. . . . . . . .BUT kim cannot do much in a aganos match. . .it’s BAAAAD. . .

Shin hisako vs aganos is atrocious… although I did well in one match.

Sadira versus Shinsako…

I find that Shin Hisako has to work really hard in this match up and as @STORM179 has already stated, it isn’t a lot of fun. From all the matches I’ve played against her (at various levels of skill), all of them had trouble keeping Sadira in check. Without Vengeance and a DP that has to be timed precisely to strike Sadira out of the sky, Sadira can pester Shinsako a whole lot more than she could Hisako. Also the very nature of Sadira’s gameplay can nullify the value of Shinsako’s Instinct. Hands can’t grab what they can’t reach.

IF the Shinsako player ground Sadira though, then the match swings wildly in her favor (but that is no different than any other MU against Sadira). Her ground buttons are far better than Sadira’s and her far reaching normals can beat out just about anything Sadira can dish out. If Shinsako clips Sadira’s wings, she is then free to bully her, but that is no easy task.

If I was to grade this MU I would give it 4.5-5.5 slightly in Sadira’s favor, but not by much.

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