Early Shin Hisako MU's

After tinkering around with her, i was curious how people feel her winning, losing or even matchups might be at this early stage.

I think she wins against…
Sabrewulf, Riptor, Aganos, Spinal, TJ Combo, Omen, Cinder, Tusk, Arbiter, Rash

And loses against…
Glacius, Kan-Ra, ARIA, Gargos, Kim Wu, Kilgore, Orchid, Mira, Eyedol

And goes even against…
Jago, Thunder, Hisako, Shadow Jago, Sadira, Fulgore, Maya (maybe this is winning?), RAAM

EDIT: good points have been raised about Aganos, and i noted he’s not winning in my opinion now, but i’d like to keep the discussion going. Just noting it for any new comers to the thread.

I haven’t played most of that MUs to have an opinion, but Aganos is even or in Aganos favor IMO

1 Like

I feel its barely to her but hey, been wrong before, lol. My thoughts? Wake up forward dash into instant heavy overhead will blow up Aganos trying to grab. Her heavy causes a stagger. And i think putting an orb on Aganos head is pretty scary. And Aganos is hard pressed to evade hands when armor doesnt protect him in the air. Also, just by being a mixup character, she has better chance than most to strip chunks and level the playing field.

However, gotta take into account the armor, Aganos’ quarter screen heavy, and his own jump attacks that are pretty close to instant. Among other things as well like higher damage and shrinking the screen with walls.

Just think this one favors her slightly.

On the tusk matchup:

Tusk can zone the crap out of shin sako. I’ve found the key to fighting her is to stay airborne, like always. Her shadow x-up move is far too good. Is unreachable, for me at least, and she combos off it from full screen. Yikes! But with tusk, I stay jumping like a rookie jago. I back jump with mp and neutral or jump forward with air skull splitter. She really struggles with that. Plus tusk can float over her projectile with jump mp. Her timing has to be perfect to to teleport punish a whiffed air skull splitter.

Her forward dash isn’t invulnerable, so trying to do this on wakeup will get you hit (unless I’m unaware of it being invulnerable).

When Aganos is armored, he shouldn’t care that much about mixups that aren’t heavy normals or command grabs… especially when the mixup has as much recovery as Shinny’s. If she does rekka xx rekka xx overhead or rekka xx rekka xx dash-through, Aganos can just hold down-back, react to getting hit with one of them, then punish her for it.

1 Like

It’s not invulnerable but fwd dash lk is really a tough move to punish. If she meatie dashes me, I’m basically free to that. Like I said, I hold up a lot vs her. It’s tough to beat what you can’t combo.

She’s new, but I feel very confident in saying that Shin Hisako doesn’t beat Aganos. She has almost all of base Hisako’s issues stripping chunks while having none of her ways to ignore them, and her normals are shorter range to boot. Shinsako forward dash has startup, so doing it on wakeup is basically never a viable option against a competent opponent unless they’re afraid of DP (which chunked Aganos is not). I also don’t think you get much from spirit orb on him. You’ll get the chunk, but on most of his options Aganos will recover in time to punish you for hitting him. I think she loses this fight slightly at least.

On a lot of your other MU’s I think I also disagree. I see no compelling reason why she would lose to either Kim Wu or Orchid, for instance, and I don’t see why she would beat Tusk, TJ, or Rash, just to name a few.

1 Like

Know something…i completely forgot about Aganos’ flick, which will bust up some of her options too.

Yeah, i was wrong, i dont see this matchup to Shin Hisako’s favor now.

Always open to discussion.

For Orchid, given her kinda beefy damage, i feel the difference lies in their instincts and meter moves. I feel like Orchids have enough tools in meter to slip past neutral orb-fireball setups and things to keep Shinsako from over her head. Instinct for Orchid has always been good on pressure, which we all know. I see it from the point that Orchid uses those to her advantage, gains a life lead and just waits for the punishable approaches.

With Kim Wu, parry alone can break most meaty setups ive come across. I feel not much fear in that unless they’re delayed setups or ones where Shinsako cant be hit by parry’s kickback.

Shinsako can outpoke Kim. No doubt. She can stick fwd MP out all day and Kim has to sit on it and also respect her AA game. Shinsako needs to respect that Dragon Kick can let her escape hands AND that she is almost always walking forward with them out and can get tagged. (obviously not if theyre under her can she escape, but if she’s trying to set her up is my point.) Also, Firecracker opener can blow up some fireball setups to make moves safe on block. I combine those to get my feel that Kim can edge Shin Hisako.

Doesn’t she have the shadow cross up that can easily strip all the chunks up? I feel that she can easily nullify most of Aganos’ tools easily. She just needs to play patient and if Aganos does something, Shin Hisako can just strip all the chunks away.

I’d move Aganos from winning to loses, or at least even. Chunks completely negate everything she can do. Sure shadow slice is a full screen punish to a chunk up attempt that’ll remove them all but all Aganos has to do is not chunk up when you have a bar. I’d also move Omen to even, shadow form just says “lol” to her meaty orb mix ups.

The only ones I agree she loses to is Aria, Kilgore, and Mira. I don’t see how the others are bad match ups, especially Gargos, that match up feels very strongly in her favor to me.

I’d move Raam from even to wins. Take the life lead > shoot forward moving orb > Backdash, backdash, backdash, backdash > Raam chases > Teleport to literally full screen ditance in the opposite direction > shoot another forward orb > Backdash, backdash, backdash. > repeat until time out victory.

I kinda also want to move Jago to wins but maybe once people stop using windkicks so freely I’ll stop getting free medium DP into juggles or set up.

And what is Aganos doing that’s letting her reaction shadow to strip chunks from him? She can shadow over stomp with overhead, but that’s not as easy to do on reaction as you might think, and Aganos has a bunch of other options he can harass her with instead that will stuff overhead slash. Shadow cross-up slash has no invincibility, so that move is pretty bunk as an option.

@SithLordEDP I don’t feel strongly enough about it to really argue, but I can still see how she would beat Omen. Shinsako deals with him in neutral much better than almost any character in the game - cross slash projectile eats rashokukens all day, and can actually force Omen to chill out with all the flying shenanigans at mid-screen. He has a much harder time getting in on her than he does most characters.

I actually do agree that both the Glacius and Gargos MU’s are probably losing ones for her, since Shinsako has significant issues getting in on them. She just can’t catch Gargos a lot of the time, and spirit orb isn’t great at dealing with either of those characters’ particular brands of zoning. Once she catches them she’s got good options, but getting that first touch can be pretty tough. She’s new enough that it’s entirely possible (likely) I’m missing something in these fights, but they feel really difficult to me.

Can’t say for sure if she wins the Wulf MU yet. For now I feel it could be even. However she does have a dp and a tricky fireball plus nice range normals to poke Wulf out. The Shinsakos that beat me used just some unreactable stuff that I fell into with ease, but whenever I got to block I could punish without a lot of work.

We should play the Kim/Shinsako MU sometime. I think that on paper Kim has some solid tools, but at the same time I don’t think those are big enough to be dispositive of the fight at all. Shinsako has buttons to compete with Kim, and she’s fast enough that Kim can’t avoid playing footsies with her. That’s not nothing. I haven’t played the MU a ton though, so I’d be curious to explore it more. I’m doubtful that Shin Hisako beats her, but I’m also pretty sure she doesn’t lose that fight.

On the Orchid front, I think you’re overestimating her tools a bit. Shinsako hits about as hard as she does, and she can’t really use the grenade to manage neutral because of cross slash projectile (grenade call is free spirit orb). And like Kim, Orchid has to deal with Shinsako’s big buttons, and can’t just walk in and out of comfortable ranges because of how fast Shinsako is. Orchid’s pressure also has all its general vulnerabilities (shadow counterable), along with the new wrinkles posed by Shin Hisako’s DP (no heavy rekka pressure allowed).

I dunno, maybe it’s because I’m used to playing those match ups with raam that having shisakos tools makes them feel easy by comparison.

Lol. That’s fair. I found the Gargos MU incredibly frustrating, but I can see a Raam main looking at the fight and thinking “what are you whining about?” :joy:

I just found that it was really difficult to claim any forward space. Spirit orb calls get punished by PP, wings and medium PP do a lot of pushback on hit or block, and Shinsako can’t dash basically ever. She can’t “soak” a hit the way Raam can to quickly steal some space, and overall it just seemed like Gargos had way better options to deal with anything I might want to do at range.

I could’ve just been playing it wrong, but I really do think Gargos has some pretty solid advantages in the neutral between them (and that’s without minions). It was bad enough that after the matches I was just like “nope, not gonna bother dealing with that. Sako pick incoming next time I see you.”

dead wrong about the aganos natch up. This actually might be his ONLY 7-3 match up…

@STORM179 I wouldn’t mind playing that matchup. Hell, its all i played the day of her release and not even intentionally. :slight_smile: I have a long set i played against a Shin Hisako in the replay thread in the meantime if that’s of interest to you.

With Orchid though? Yeah, i could be, especially since those are meter moves i give credit to. But that’s kinda my reason to it.

Uh, ok then. I’d be fascinated to hear why you think the fight is so bad for him.

EDIT: or were you saying Aganos wins it 7-3? I don’t think it’s that bad for her. She has options in the fight - not always great options mind you, but she can usually do something I’ve found.

I just fought you in ranked. Did not know Kim’s parry was unblockable. I thought I could block it when you parried the fireball and simply hit you after but nope. Had to get sneaky and go for grabs instead of fireball.