Do you think we've spoilt as a community?

I’m very interested in knowing how all this started. I mean, when did these concepts first appear? SFII? who was the first to start counting frames? when were option selects discovered for the first time? I find it incredible that people has deciphered fighting games to this fundamental level. Did developers make these things public?

He has a LOT of informative stuff.

He helped me 100% SSF4’s trial mode, MvC3 vanilla’s trials mode, and helped me discover a lot of fundamental stuff. Call me an 09er if you want, I can’t deny it, but it’s not a bad thing. But his Super Street Fighter 4 Tutorial series, which is like his second oldest playlist is a supremely useful one.

He also holds a lot of records involving maximizing the number of hits on Ultra Combos. I think he has an Aganos hex-Ultra combo video somewhere. Yes, he activates Aganos’ Ultra Combo SIX TIMES in one ultra finisher. He also sets his meter gain and instinct to normal so every one of his ultras are done under realistic conditions, and can be done in a match, albeit, THEY’RE FREAKING HARD MAN!!!

So if you’d like to foster more of a playing environment, can I suggest something similar to TrueAchievements’ Boosting Sessions? Players can set up lobby times and dates before hand, leave them open for people who want to join for that date and time.

This is definitely a weakness of my guide. If the concept you’re looking for isn’t listed in the top navigation bar, it can be pretty tough to find something out.

I’ve thought for a long time about doing a glossary on my site, and each term would have a short video example (less than 10 seconds).

As you might guess, this is a monumental amount of work, and with S3 around the corner I probably can’t get started on it right now, but if there are people (who I trust understand fighting games) to help me shoot these videos, I could look into setting up the infrastructure for this.

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Yeah it’d definitely be good to have a shared strategy section on the forum. Not sure how that would need to be organized, though Infil’s guide should definitely be pinned at the top.

It’d also be nice to maybe divide the feedback section in to current content and future content. It might be hard to pick which place someone should post in at times though, but it could work, I think.

As to OPs thread subject, I don’t think everyone’s spoiled. I think that there is a group of people that have nothing but negativity to contribute and use their love for their perfect vision of a KI game that doesn’t exist and never existed to justify their unending frustration with a product that could never hope to live up to their unreasonable expectations, even if they’re completely unaware of how unreasonable they are.

They either don’t see the cumulative effect of their posts as far as their contribution to the forum or their reputation here or they simply don’t care, as they think it’s their nationalistic duty to inform the devs what the nation-state of KI wants out of a game, so that trumps being constructive, positive, willing to compromise or respecting that the devs themselves might have a vision that differs from their own.

You know, the people that always have to use “we” when talking about something they don’t like, as if speaking for others who really get the “true soul” of KI adds both the illusion of majority opinion and experience (and thus a more valid / important) opinion, that the devs will be more inclined to listen to due to this increased weight behind their words.

Yes, there are those people and some shout loudly and consistently, but really, they’re a small group. Most of us see their names and know what they’ll say before we’ve read the first word.

Maybe I’m just an optimist, but I think that most people in here think it’s amazing that the devs are so accessible and so willing to not only listen, but to react when feedback is strong or semi-united in a certain way of thinking.

I think it’s awesome that these guys just pop in to answer a question or clarify a point or correct misinformation. Could anyone take that for granted or be spoiled by it? Sure. But is this community as a whole? I sincerely doubt it. Most of us here respect and appreciate what these guys do for the game we love, even if we don’t always agree on every single choice they make.

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Our behaviour as a community is really disgraceful now. Not all of us of course, but it’s really beginning to show. I was on the Twitch chat today for the Killer Instinct Pro League and all I saw was people constantly complaining to @TheKeits about Season 3, about their characters, about how he ‘only care about his opinion’, even from top players. Keits is even taking a break from speaking to the community now:

What are we doing?! We are gifted by having a company that talks to us, keep close to the community yet we are pushing our own devs away due to our negativity! This game won’t die because ‘oh, the devs are not balancing the game right’, or ‘oh, the devs don’t listen to us’. It’s our own views as a community that will destroy this game if we don’t behave more positively.


I wish people had screen caps of the twitch chat. I would’ve have like to see what has been said.


No…Because I’m willing to pay more money to get stuff that most of the community agrees on. Attacking devs is very bad form though.


I didn’t get to see the chat, but I watched a few matches and even the host was commenting about how bad the chat was. At one point he stopped commentary on matches until people calmed down.

Pretty embarrassing


Here’s the reality.

Killer Instinct is the first fighting game where the people in charge of balance and bugs actively engage with the fans. It’s as new to the developers as it is to the fans. If you want to go play a game that is “take it or leave it”, every single other fighting game in the history of the genre, both past and present, is available to you.

Engaging with the developers in this way is a privilege. Maybe you have to be 15 year veteran of the FGC to understand just how lucky we are to have an English-speaking dev that cares even one whit about what we think. But if we squander this opportunity, both as the KI community and as the fighting game community, I think it will be quite a long time until we get another one like it.

Just because you are a top player doesn’t mean your opinions on game balance are automatically correct. Top players in many games have been notoriously wrong on eventual game balance, and because they have a stake in the characters they play, they can often struggle to see the big picture.

However, it also doesn’t mean your opinions are automatically incorrect. Indeed, being good at the game and seeing matchups and tech at a high level means your opinion is valuable to the devs. But (and here’s the important part): you have to foster a positive relationship with the devs for that to matter at all. It doesn’t matter what “most of the community” seems to want if all the people on that side of the issue can’t get their ■■■■ together with respect to basic human decency.

Even if KI made the most egregious balance mistake of all time and it was up to the community to convince the devs to save the game from itself, why would they listen to any of us if we are loud, obnoxious, and rude, not only to them but sometimes to fellow players and fans too? You don’t get yourself heard just by being right. You get yourself heard by being kind, courteous, open to meaningful discussion without ad hominems, and understanding that sometimes you might just disagree with the developers but they get the ultimate say. If you conduct yourself in THIS way, you might find yourself being heard more often in the future, because you are proving you have the game’s best interests in mind, and not just your own. Internally, you might think “I do have the game’s best interests in mind”, but you aren’t proving it. Actions and intentions are different things.

You are welcome to continue to blame Keits, the staff at IG/MS, or whoever you want for why the game isn’t the best you personally think it can be. But if you’re going to approach it this way, the devs will (justifiably) distance themselves from the community, and this opportunity for a fostering relationship between devs and fans will dry up, if it hasn’t already.

In the meantime, feel free to go play SFV and continue to get 0 contact or feedback from anybody at Capcom who has any control over the game, just like it’s always been. If you want KI to go in that direction too, we as a community are doing a fantastic job of that.


I’m just disgusted. After growing up with no way of contacting devs for my favorite games and having no voice at all, we have such a unique opportunity here to engage with the developers and some of these armchair developers can’t help but sling ■■■■ from the cheap seats.

I don’t care if you’re a pro. I don’t care if you’ve been playing since season one or the old games or if you’re a “true fan” or you think you know this game backwards and forwards, better than Keits and all the other devs working tirelessly to make this an enjoyable experience for all of us (not just you and your main), you do NOT get to treat other people this way. Not devs, not pros, not casuals, not MS people or IG people who make all of this possible in the ■■■■■■■ first place.

You want to act like a scumbag and run good people like Adam Heart out of here with your buligerance, your bullying and your BS, I’d humbly ask that you return to whatever garbage community you slithered in from and harass those people, because this shouldn’t be us. This shouldn’t be how we treat people who want to have a dialog with us.

Respect is something most children learn. Most of us are adults who should know this already. Most of us here are good people who do. We have a dialog. We voice our appreciation and our concerns where appropriate. I hope we can all learn from this and learn to be better as a community.

Really, I’m only directing this at those who need to hear it. Please, please listen. Please do not ruin this for the rest of us. Please don’t make this a community the game’s own developers have to shield themselves from.



I saw Keits update and now I want to see this chat.

Is it in archives? Which one?
A lot of people are salty from other games as well, and I want to see if it was players of KI or just random fanboys or overwatch/ etc who just wanted to be rude and nasty while the devs were trying to give a generous stream.

If anyone has the direct link,please post thanks

A time stamp for the archive would be nice.

Me and @RGLOfficial plan on making a discussion video on the state of the KI community tomorrow. These points you guys are bringing up could be useful in our discussion.


Can we see the chat again? I thought that was with a certain program.

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It pretty much started as the stream started. As soon as Keits popped in people started bothering him for nerfs, after about an hour it got really bad.

Quite frankly, I think some of the people who could and should be the best spokepeople for the game have become unbearably toxic to it.

If you aren’t having fun, then go play something else where you actually enjoy yourself - don’t waste your and our time only popping in to ■■■■■ in chat and air your litany of grievances. I can’t imagine it’s fun for you, and it sure as hell isn’t fun for the rest of us. I watch my streams in fullscreen most of the time now, because I really can’t be bothered to check in with the chat and listen to all the moaning and whinging about “IG never listens” or how Keits is a terrible person. I’d rather have a small community that actually loves their game than something larger where all players do is ■■■■■ and hate on the thing they claim to enjoy.

Seriously - if you don’t actually like KI, then you really are not in any way obligated to keep on playing/watching it. If all it brings you is angst and annoyance, then find something more fulfilling to spend your time on.


I think it’s automatically programmed into twitch now, so it should just work if you load up the archive.

Pro League Week 3? I’m watching the past broadcast and I don’t have an option to see the chat.

I have a lot in mind I want to say about this. But unfortunately as we’ve seen here on the forums, some of the most stubborn fans are also some of the most vocal. I’m sad its come to a point where a developer who started out asking for community input is now taking a break from it. That is something, guys.

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I agree Dooby, it’s not a good thing.

Anytime a Dev takes a break from ANY communication with the community, it’s a bad sign, IMO. It’s crazy to even think that. I watch most streams with KI. The chat that is in some streams makes me want to sit in silence in a dark room with “The Sound of Silence” by Simon & Garfunkel playing in the background.

And it’s the same complaints over and over. Not even some new ideas, just more Acid being spewed out to everyone. I have NEVER met a team with so much passion for a game, and willing to have a Dev/Community relationship with us. In fact, that’s one of the reasons I love this game. I don’t chat anymore in the streams. I can never get to talk to anyone, as my chat post gets lost in The Sea of Disapproval.

We as a community have the GREATEST privilege of ANY fighting game I’ve ever seen. We cannot squander this chance.


Just because you are a “true fan” or “Pro”, doesn’t give you the green light to antagonize and belittle everyone on the stream and in the community because they share different views or such. I’ve seen many streams, where some Pros character gets nerfed, and they go on a rant and say he is terrible and dead.

I will never forget one pro streamer that literally belittled someone on stream. Told him that he knew what he was talking about, because he had 600+ hours with the character, that the character was dead, and that no one cared. Even showed the leaderboards and said, "I know what I’m talking about. Untill you prove to me that this character is still good, then I don’t give a damn what you say. (Something along those lines). Then I believe that person that asked the question got banned.

Even the “true fans” that complain about [Insert Character] isn’t the same from the old games. Or the character sucks because of their clothes and such.
“Combo breakers aren’t the same from the old games, so I’ll spew negativity at the Devs to fix it.” Stuff like that.

That is unacceptable, and will turn people away from KI in a heartbeat.

We need to fix this soon guys. And this isn’t for all of you. Some of you in the community are the coolest people I’ve ever known. Some of the most positive people too, willing to support this game until the end. But Negativity travels fast, and it takes only a couple handful of people to ruin it for all of us.

I’ve already lost a couple of KI friends because of the negativity in the community. I’m not willing to lose the game’s support and the rest of the community too. :frowning2: