Devil May Cry 5

If you’re able to get halfway good with jump cancelling, neither boss fight is that much trouble. You get your evasive options back and they have pretty significant tells on their charge and AOE attacks so you can pummel them until you see the tell and then back off. S rank DMD mode kicked my ■■■ for hours and it would have done for more if it wasn’t for that.

Maybe, the history of the game does back up the fact that they like re-releases with additional content instead of actual DLC. Whatever news it may be, we’ll probably get a hint next year.

@DoobyDude23
Jump Cancelling is easier in terms of timing in this Game than it was in DMC 4 But the Hitboxes are just as Finnicky as they’ve always been. In my case I died the Majority of The time for 3 Reasons…

  1. The excessive Bouncing of the Boss made it difficult to Step off its model… also sometimes I would stand on its back by accident which screwed up my Roulette Attempts.
  2. The Camera would Jerk around so violently during some of its movement I would wind up Spliting Or Pay Lining went I tried to use Calibur to stay in the air… also my Gerbera broke… I love Gerbera :slightly_frowning_face:
  3. I didn’t know you could just bypas the rampage all together with Colour Up I mean once I figured that out the Boss fight became trivial…

As for King Cerberus literally the only time I took Damage was during the AOE… Jump Cancelling is easier with Shin-Dante’s updated moveset than no longer requires you to be in Sword Master style to perform Aerial Rave… I beat the boss Dark Souls Style… kept jumping off its Rear End… I used the DT That I built up in between phases to Tank the AOE…
If theres some way to avoid getting hit by it… I don’t see it… It covers the whole area and Lingers for quite a bit…

Edit:
Forgot about Urizen (Crystal Guard Version)… this game has some strange Bosses but this guy was the one that made the least sense to me…

  1. You Can’t Jump Cancel off the Crystal… meaning you only get one Air Hike/Calibur/Side Roll… which really arent even good defensive to begin with… not compared to Trickster.
    2 & 3) The Crystal Itself only has a single Attack… the rest of the Attacks come from Urizen and even then they don’t come directly from him… Some rain from above or Down below… this is a problem because the only thing you can lock on to is the Crystal… which means neither Urizen or his Attacks are in Focus… I pretty much got hit by all of Them…

Its almost as if this fight was not intended for Nero…

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@Lulekani, do You mean the move in ice form? You can used stored Royal Guard gauge to do a release and stun him, prevemting the move from coming up

If you mean aoe during element change, you can parry that. Also against Malphas charge, you can use Overture to stagger the boss during its charge.

@s0undy44
I never used Royal Guard because just like Max Act the timing is way too strict… I know Guilty Gear combos that are far easier than Royal Guard…

As for Malphas I didn’t have Overture… strange that if thats the breaker that works better then why do they Throw Rag Time at you ? I doesn’t do anything… like seriously even the thing that it used to do before just doesn’t work some unexplained reason… Nero’s right… Nico’s QA Sucks.

And now I have to deal with Mission 18… the Deaths just keep getting cheaper and cheaper. DMC Was never an easy series but I can’t recall an instance where I got Stun Locked (Except in DMC 4), Lose 70% Health in one hit and get Staggered for 15 Seconds while the boss casually lines up his most Damaging Move…

Its Frustrating…

Edit:
So… I decided to Fiddle with Royal Guard… since I never use it it took me a while to figure out the sound cue for a Failed Royal Guard Attempt… it sounds like a Tennis Ball bouncing off an empty Oil Drum… a proper Royal Guard on the other hand sounds like a thin sheet of steel snapping violently…
What makes it hard to pin point is the the other sound is the Clash Sound effect that happens when your attack and the enemies attack collide simultaneously which sounds like swords clashing… this is what drowns out the Failed Royal Guard sound even while wearing headphones…

The reason I bring this up is because trying to assess which Royal Guard you got by looking at The DT Gauge in this fight specifically is nigh on impractical… I look up and look down and Dante gets impaled…

Anyway… seems like Royal Guard, even when perfectly timed is not particularly advantageous for this fight… I was hoping it would knock him out of DT Mode but he just kept going…

Its easier just to use Trickster…

SDT on the other hand seems like it would Put a stop to it if you Activated just as he’s about to Collide With You… and with it Activated I was able to wear that ■■■■■■■ down to 20% Health when yet again he pulls out another surprise one hit kill move out of no where…

After a few more attempts I managed to reach that point again so I could try dodge it… and I died… its unfair to force me to start over from the beginning to just to find the dodge timing of a single move… assuming its even dodgeable at all (He Freezes Time which Freezes Dante)…

Edit 2:
So I went back to farm to Red Orbs with Dr. Faust… fun times… anyway along the way I ran into Malphas again… turs out I was wrong… The Game Doesn’t throw Rag Time at you… turns out the Breaker you get is completely Random… which would explain why some of them were useless…

Further more I was wrong about Colour Up too… it doesn’t work… I don’t know what’s up with this fight but its randomness makes it hard to tell whats going on and what moves to respond with… especially since Nero has so few to begin with… Disabling Pay Line in the Skill List helped with Irratic Camera but still felt like I couldn’t get the moves I wanted…

Oh Well… 3 More Missions and il be right back to getting my ■■■ Kicked in Mission 19… haven’t come up with way to Deal with the Staggers and 2 Hit Kills other than Buying Blue/Purple Orbs

You can always use the Ragtime special to have a break, rethink what to do. With mission 18, if you trick to griffon after he does any movement, you can combo lock him to weak state and hit him for big damage. If any boss is problematic, you can use trickster a lot to move in and out, deal safe damage, continue offence with guns from afar.

My Bad… meant to say Mission 19… didn’t mention names because Spoilers…
Mission 18 was Straight Forward…

As For Rag Time… it just wasn’t working in that Particular Fight… as I said before… it did nothing… didn’t summon a time bubble didn’t deal damage or stun the boss. All it did was leave me Vulnerable.

Thats my Go To style by the time I made it to Mission 17 I already had trickster to Level 4 and Ground Trick Chase Down is what allowed me to both maintain an agressive offense while still avoiding Damage.

For the most part the same works just fine in mission 19… infact better than fine… it seems like I have the upper hand and then boom… DT One Hit Kill… in the few instances where I was able to get past that phase the moves that used to be punishable are not only safer but extend to have another attack that deals massive Damage… Correct me if im wrong but this level of damage is very uncharacteristic for the series. It feels so unnecessary DMC never needed to resort to this design before to achieve a challenge. It could beat me just fine with Small hits… giving me the Impression that it wanted to me to learn and try harder… why they decided to copy Dark Souls in this fight ? Who knows :slightly_frowning_face: Maybe they felt like it was Okay to do things that way because they increased the supply of Gold Orbs… Not a big fan…

Edit:
Im confused about the Devil Breakers.
Whats the Ammo Count for ?

I mean if you use a Breaker it doesn’t go down…
If you use a break away the whole prosthetic snaps off completely.
If you take damage with an active breaker the whole thing snaps off completely.
If you charge the Breaker the whole thing snaps off completely… :confused:

So why is there an Ammo Counter ?

Edit 2:
Well… its over… and quite Frankly I’m dissapointed… :slightly_frowning_face:
Mission 19 and Mission 20 are Polar Opposites: The Former is a Meat Grinder with Cheap Deaths and The Latter is Hand Holding Awkward Battle Of attrition (Your DT Gauge Auto Generates and Damage output is skewed in your favour) and yet both Missions are Completed the Same Way… Brute Force With DT and Gold Orbs…

I can’t deal… need to play something else…

Maybe, you were supposed to feel sth, like a great plotline coming to an end and maybe, you were supposed to not use gold orbs and learn his moveset?

Not really, the final boss fights are usually quite high damage. Pretty sure DMC3 Vergil did the same ■■■■ ton of damage.
Trickster and Royal Guard are the only two styles you need to use in that fight. Helps a lot if you practice switching between styles mid-flow. If you’re really good with Royal Guard, the fight is a cinch. Build up Royal Guard gauge with the summoned swords and predictable Helm breaker, punish the consecutive judgment cuts with Stinger just as the 4th cut appears, build SDT and use the missiles at around 25% remaining.

You mean the count when you’re in a mission? Tells you how many you have left if any of them break.

I’ve seen a lot of videos when trying to find a strategy for DMD and some people are able to pull off some really stylish tricks to beat that mission. I found it challenging to switch between two styles and two weapons each, but some of these guys had their whole loadout equipped and swapping between them like it was linked to their mind. Point being, brute force isn’t the only way.

I agree with this. Practicing the moves and not using Gold Orbs was much better overall, required repetition to learn a good strategy.

Its been so long since I played DMC 3 but even still… considering that you have to restart the mission if you die I remember the damage being more balanced…

Also you could actually punish…

I could already do this in combos… Doing it in reaction to an attack is something thats always been impractical for the series… however it seems like Capcom was aware of this and some attacks have this strange windup up to them like the game is giving you a chance to switch. It happens way too often to be a coincidence especially in mission 19… He will Teleport and wind up a move giving me a chance to switch. I don’t remember having this as an Option in DMC 4… generally I would just remain in a style where I wouldn’t get Hit by a surprise move…

The Timing is just too Strict… also what do you need The Royal Guage for ?

When I realised it takes 2 Perfectly timed Royal Blocks to get one full Chunk in the gauge I simply opted to use Royal Release instead… I was only able to smack him out of DT mode a single time during the Swoop he does (Camera angle is positioned to give Poor Depth Perception) during DT Helm Breaker and DT Stinger (whatever his version of Stinger is called) it was easier to catch him with Royal Release in those moves but Sadly catching him there doesn’t knock him out of DT Mode…

Speaking Of Cameras… even if you don’t lock on the game will try to keep the Boss on screen (rather annoying in Nero’s Boss fights since you have look for Devil Breakers) which means finger doesn’t cramp up from holding down a button… Cool Right ? Yeah well it stops doing that when you get Sandwiched…

Theres a 4th Cut ? :face_with_hand_over_mouth: I thought It was just three… in any case After I realised Stinger’s (Million Stab) Input was just convoluted as it was in 4 I just disabled it in the Skill list (Thank God this Feature Exists) I use trickster’s Ground Trick to close in… althought here’s the thing…

Stinger works better because the travel time means Judgement cuts will appear in your wake as you advanced torwards the Boss. With Ground Trick on the Other Hand I can avoid the first Judgement Cut but because I’m teleporting the Next Judgement appears exactly where I reapear… and I can still avoid getting hit by it but being forced to move prevents me from punishing it…

I guess one thing I could Try is Switching to Royal Guard as I Reappear and try my luck with a Royal Release (I haven’t learned to convert off this move yet due to how rarely I land it)

This is to Avoid Getting Sandwhiched Right ? :laughing: Yeah I did the same thing… Using SDT To Skip that Nonsense makes sense.

That number on The Bottom Right… whenever a Breaker Breaks literary that Breaker is gone forever regardless of what that number says… for example if I have 3/3 Overtures if one Breaks… the Overture just gets removed rather than turning into 2/3…

In Mission 20 They kinda Encourage Brute force with how they Flip The design from Soul Crushing to Hand Holding… I’m assuming they did this for narrative purposes to make a more Cohesive Thematic Experience… Dark Souls does this all the time…

As for Mission 19… I don’t know what you want me to tell you… Playing Normally didn’t work… Brute Forcing with SDT Did… It might be possible to beat him without SDT but it certainly isn’t practical… ofcourse I knew that already when they were demoing the game prerelease and I saw Nero and Dante’s controls haven’t changed since DMC 4… the Timing of Max Act and Royal Guard also haven’t changed…

The thing that Bugs me more is in DMC 4 I wasn’t punished for not using Royal Guard but appearantly in DMC 5 its the only counter to some moves.

It feels limiting… which conflicts with what DMC is about…

I did this Too… the problem here is the type of Repetion they opted for is discouraging…

What I mean by this is in DMC 4 if I wanted to counter Something the repetition would all occur in that very same fight… you could come up with a counter Strategy without having to die and start all over… This is hands down the best aspect of a game like Furi… you should check it out… its good.

Mission 19’s uses DarK Souls style repetition… you make two mistakes and you die and are forced to start from Phase One… which you’ve probably already mastered and are starting to get annoyed having to go through That Phase repeatedly just to get to the single move that keeps killing you and experimenting what to do to counter it…

Went on a bit of a Rant down Here…

And thats the problem A move that deals that much damage doesn’t encourage experimenting because of how annoying the process is fighting back to the point to implement a different strategy… Poor Iteration Time… You can even see this one of the Secret Missions that require you to stay in the air… The Game shows you the Fail screen and then reloads when you touch the ground… The exact same Mission appears in Bayonetta and they implimented a more elegant solution to the problem… Rather than using a single timer, they use 2… The first Timer Counts how long you stay in the Air… The 2nd Timer is a much longer count down timer that allows you to keep trying without having to reset only after 6 or 7 Attempts will the game force you to reset…

I get that Vergil is suppose to be a total Bad ■■■ but really the fight just feels cheap and anoying and then having my Hand Held after that in Mission 20 just feels like Capcom is laughing at my expense.

Using Brute Force to win makes more sense and it feels like the game is pushing you torwards this with how Strong SDT is and how they give you so many Gold Orbs (you literally get one every 24 Hours) I don’t like it… I know you you don’t like it either… but thats what the game is… now if they The Loosened the Timing on Max Act and Royal Guard, used a more effective Control Scheme for Dante’s Styles and Weapons, Drop The Stupid Lock On (Seriously… why is this still a thing) and Added a dedicated Dodge Button then yeah… that would be alil better…

Oh Wait…

Oh Well…

Sorry if this somehow counts as off-topic, but after the re-release of DMC2 on the Switch (sixth times the charm I guess) I was hoping Capcom would at least have used that to hint about the DLC they were planning for DMC5.

Has any news been talked about regarding DMC5’s future content updates? I mean the game was right up there with the RE2 remake (which did release DLC content in the following months), and I’m just worried that with the success of Iceborne Capcom is gonna put more eggs in the Monster Hunter basket (which I wouldn’t blame them for, MHW is brillant).

Can we just count Bloody palace as DLC and stop this conversation? It came out around a month later, just like DLC for RE 2.

We don’t need more characters, we have 3, all of them are rich and interesting (watch Void Violin if you think V is boring). Just play the game.

Also can I remind you that the dlc for DMC 4 came out 8 years later? Do we, as a community with our demands, patience, respect for the developers, deserve that dlc? Because even one month later, after we got one of the best games this year, about which people had dreamed about for years, we still wanted more and more.

Can we appreciate what we got, and if we really want to play Vergil, just go to DMC 4 SE? It is really good, despite all of its flaws.

Yeah, most we can reasonably hope for now is a Special Edition at some point in the future. If there was going to be DLC expansions it would have been announced by now.

I wouldn’t mind a spin-off follow up to DMC5 starring Lady and Trish akin to Uncharted: Lost Legacy either.

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I really wanna play as Vergil, Trish, and Lady again. I don’t care how.

But if it is some sort of deluxe edition, at least let people pay a reduced price to upgrade the base game to that edition. If I have to pay another $60 for is, Capcom just simply isn’t getting my money.

You grossly misread my statement. I’m not demanding that they bring back every single playable character as DLC or whatever, I am simply asking why was this game seemingly dropped after Bloody Palace despite being so successful in sales? As much money as MHW made the company, I don’t want Capcom to just dump every other IP like they did years ago (like when they dumped everything in favor of Street Fighter 4).

The absolute last thing DMC needs is to be dropped again, especially considering how long it took to get another in-house developed game in the first place.

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But you gotta admit, Vergil, Lady, and Trish would be fun to play as again. Might even be interesting to see what they do with Lucia.

Maybe it is me being weird, but I want this series to be left alone. DMC V is a love letter to the series, it is what we asked for, Itsuno got to make a game with time, budget, vision and without Capcom interfering.

Sure, hardcore players of 4 were a bit disappointed with some technical aspects, but they fixed that with Community Edition.

This game is the end of Dante’s story, at least that is how I interpret it. I’d rather have Capcom focus on new IPs, than to continue here. Itsuno does not want to make another one. He made his Opus Magnum, now it is time for him to rest. He put his soul into this game.

If we look at it, pieces of art when given to other people by creators, should be left alone. It might sound weird, especially looking at how game as a service becomes more and more omnipresent. I highly encourage DLCs when creators want to make them, DLCs for Bloodborne and Dark Souls came to existence, because director had great ideas to share. I don’t think DLCs for the sake of making content have any heart to them and if Itsuno doesn’t want to make anything more for DMC franchise, I am more than happy with what I’ve got.

This would have been better said yesterday, instead of making bad assumptions about me. I have seen so many cases over the years of Capcom just dropping every IP that wasn’t the “big money maker” of it’s given console generation, I was legitimately worried that history would repeat itself for the 1000th time.

If Itsuno doesn’t want to make more DMC games or DLC, than I am perfectly fine with that. Because you’re right, DLC for the sake of DLC is garbage (thousands of cases of that) and we don’t need the DMC series getting thrown through the wringer again (already happened twice after all).

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Definitely I overreacted with unneeded malice, my apologies

Was bored last night so I decided to break out the Note Pad and record some Data on Max Act and Royal Guard…

The cool thing about DMC 5’s Training Mode is it comes with a built in Game Pad Viewer… saving me the trouble of having to implement my own using Third party Software which would have additional Latency in it…

Any way… first up was Max Act… I wanted to see just how large a window the game gives you to perform max act… so I used Nero’s standard Sword Attack (Y) as my benchmark. It took 3 Minutes but I was able to get 8 Successful Max Acts. 6 of those 8 happened when the Exceed button was Registered on the 15th Frame after the attack… only 2 out of those 8 happened when the input was registered on the 16th Frame… all other attempts were either Regular Exceeds or failed attempts.

According to this admittedly tiny sample size that means the window for getting a successful Max Act is only 2 Frames at best. In other words… Even Street Fighter V’s Link Combos are more forgiving than Max Act.

Moving on…

Dante’s Results actually surprised me… I was expecting to see just as harsh timing on Royal Guard but it turns out There is alittle wiggle Room. Basically what I did was measure how many frames in between when the game registered the Style Button input and the first trace of the Devil Trigger Gauge Filling up since Royal Block, Royal Release and Regular Release All build up DT Gauge.

A Regular Release has about 4 Frame Window (From frames 5 to 8) to activate when coming into contact with an attack… it will actually build Devil Trigger Gauge Rather than depleting it and is capable of knocking down enemies.

Royal Release on the other hand was alil harder to pull off… in my case I’ve only managed to get it to work if the input is registered 3-4 Frames before I get hit… I don’t have any results where it registered on Frames 1 & 2… but I’m comfortable in saying theres about a 4 frame window to get it to work…

All together thats an 8 Frame Window where attempting to counter an enemies attack Won’t fail… While thats more than I expected it to be (much more if I’m being honest)… it still feels Strict, especially when you factor in Camera Issues and The Actual Input Delay (which I can’t even test)…

And last but not least… theres Royal Block… I didn’t really dive deep into this one because its not as useful the other 2… yes Royal Block does build up the most Royal Gauge and DT Gauge but functionally speaking its get less application in actual gameplay since it neither Reflect Projectiles or Stuns Enemies (Except for Chaos)… in any case… the window seems to be about 8 Frames… just like both Releases. But it might be 10…

Still… you’d think given what it does there would be a larger window on it… or… I guess the didn’t want building SDT to be so easy since it deals so much damage…

And with That knowledge I’m going to see if that helps me beat Vergil’s SDT Phases More Consistently… knowing that its not a Just Frame means I don’t have to wait until an attack litterally hits me before I try to Counter. Which is how I was treating it before testing it…