Countering Counters and other stuff

This is about stuff like countering a combo breaker. I believe since there is a feature like that, there should be other features like it. So we have counter breakers and shadow breakers; we need counters to ultras, ultimates, and maybe stage ultras. It would catch the supposed winner by surprise like “awesome, fulgore is now falling his way down the building” but fulgore player does stage ultra counter and flies back up and continues fighting and wins the match. It’s sort of like TJ Combos Instinct.

How about no? Somethings make sense. You don’t.


Sometimes your threads almost seem legit and others, like this are outright lunacy.

Carry on.


The only function it would serve is to give a “last chance”, and there is already enough of those in the game.

Also, if this existed, no one would ever perform an ultra or ultimate. They would just drop the combo to make sure the opponent stays down.

No counters to Ultras, Ultimates or stage Ultras.

If you got ultra’d or hit with an Ultimate ot stage Ultra, TECHNICALLY you lost and your opponent earns that right to do so. ESPECIALLY if they get a Supreme victory out of you.

So no, prolonging the match because you lost isn’t a good idea.

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If that’s the case, they should change TJ Combos Instinct.

They are legit.

How about a counter to the ultra counter?

Funny enough I don’t have much trouble with TJ’s instinct because t’s just one little thing and it can only happen if you save up the meter for it to happen. Unlike the other stuff you’re suggesting which could just be done at any time.

You’re not the first person to spit stuff like this out and everyone else has expressed their dislike about it before.

My tip: just accept the loss and move on. No need to complicate what happens at the end of the match and don’t let the opponent beat you in the first place. Have a good day!


Adding counters for no reason other thanadding counters is only going to make the game worse. If you actually have a good reason, state it. Otherwise, this is just a bad idea.

I don’t like the idea of the defeated person getting a “get out of jail free” card. Just because TJ can do it doesn’t mean everyone should be able to. Plus ultras are meant to solidify a victory. If they can be countered, then what is the point? You defeated the opponent, you’ve earned the ultra.


The real question is: how do we counter these threads?


But this wasn’t about losing. It was about countering.

You can flag threads. Hope that helps.

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Well, yeah, I guess. But I was thinking something more action-packed, like, imagine you’re typing a new thread, it’s hilarious, you’re laughing to yourself, and then BLAM! All of a sudden every keystroke becomes backspace, and you can’t help but to keep typing until the entire field is blank, and then you sit and seriously ponder how to sate your boredom, and decide on a walk or a jog or even a nap. Wouldn’t that be epic!?


Then that would be called hacking, which is illegal and looked down upon.

What? No. I’m talking about magic. Not haxxorz.

Gee wilikers. Kids these days.




There is a thread about this from a year or so ago if you used the search option. There was a lot of opposition to this idea. It isn’t the first time this has been proposed, but ultimately the idea was rejected by a lot of the community.

Basically, the game works on the principle you get two life bars and your opponent gets two, and either timing out with more health, or reducing one player’s health to zero wins the match. This is important to understand because it is one of the basic foundations of all fighting games since time immemorial.

What you are suggesting is a system that allows a person to bypass this one rule of fighting games by turning what should be the crown jewel, the apex moment of victory, and flipping it around. It’s like taking the fatalities in MK and saying that you can stop them, even though you clearly lost, and turn it around completely to defeat someone.

So all the work I just put in to trying to outplay you, figure out and counter your strategies, the culmination of all my hard work should be (unfairly) negated by an arbitrary rule that says if your opponent wants to celebrate their victory, you can counter them. At that point, NO ONE will ever do another ultra, Ultimate, or stage ultra ever again because of the shear risk that they will come back.

When any exception to the rule is inserted into the game, it is done with some sort of consideration, cost, or risk reward system to balance the mechanic in place. THIS IS WHERE THE ULTRA COUNTER IS FUNDAMENTALLY FLAWED. For the person doing the Ultra, there is ALL RISK for no reward, and the person defeated gets ALL REWARD with no risk attached, after all, they’ve already lost right? So what’s going to happen to them if they fail to pull off an ultra counter? They’ve already lost, so how can you punish the loss even further.

Things like TJ’s last breath ability come with a cost to activate, and are considered in the game’s mechanics to be weighed as an option. TJ has to have a full instinct bar, and upon it’s activation, receives only a tiny bit of health, and half instinct duration instead of full. That’s the cost, where if maybe he activated his instinct during play, perhaps the full instinct mode and faster moves could have prevented TJ from losing the match altogether. The options and balances are there, and that’s why a “second chance” ability like TJ’s is considered fair.

Another example is Phoenix from MvC3. Jean has a special ability where if she has 5 bars of hyper meter stock when she goes down, she comes back as Phoenix, with ridiculous powers and aggression. However, Jean in her base form has the lowest health in the game by a large margin. For a number comparison, Akuma in that game has either 850,000 health or 900,000 health, and Jean has around 450,000, while Hulk has around 1,100,000. When Jean manages to activate Phoenix mode, she gains only 250,000 additional health. In both her base and Phoenix form, she’s so low in health she just can not survive even a single combo. Her Phoenix form also constantly has her health drained.

In the case of Jean, her health, meter requirements, and glass cannon playstyle balance her having such an ability in her arsenal.

But inserting the ability to counter an ultra, defy the rules, come back from defeat cost free, ruins the risk/reward gameplay that KI is pretty much known for, and renders the Ultra system pointless and meaningless. Even if it were balanced with some kind of cost to be fair, it wouldn’t come without being heavily criticized because then the gameplay meta would shift in a way to reflect this last chance possibility, perhaps in a way that would really be detrimental enough to where people would quit playing.

Now, some of the guys in this thread are fairly blunt in how they say no, but I hope to offer you some insight as to why this isn’t really a good idea. I’m not saying you shouldn’t post your ideas, and I’m not picking on you at all for posting one. But it’s pretty common people post ideas on here without thinking much about how their ideas impact the game. Some puzzle pieces just don’t fit well in the KI puzzle, and no amount of forcing them will make them work, at least not without a great deal of resistance.

So we’re not trying to pick on you, and I hope you aren’t taking it the wrong way. But when you have an idea, consider all it could affect if it is actually put in, and if you have a hard time with that, most people on here will try to interject with a standpoint that maybe you missed, and try to help you out with a discussion.

That said, not every post is critically helpful, but I hope mine can clear up some confusion for you.