There is another use for Shadow Trialblazer you guys may not know about.
The move is actually +4 on block and makes an effective frame trap, I’ve nailed a LOT of people for that. If they fail to Shadow Counter it, his light jab makes a decent followup and can catch people real easily for a 3 hit target combo into opener.
Also, testing it out, the move can actually recover fast enough to block both ARIA’s and Maya’s shadow counters. This will change in season 3 however, as all SC’s have been almost uniform startup at around 8 frames, so take advantage of it while you can.
Jago has a move like shadow wind kick because he doesn’t have great mobility. Cinder does, so he can’t have access to a move like that or else it’d be super silly.
I was talking about how to avoid combo breakers during juggle combos, and why making trailblazer breakable by the first strength is a nerf but isn’t totally crippling, especially with the timing lockout during juggles change.
You can use them also for juggling during instinct, chaining multiple strenghts of fireflash to avoid breakers
Also it’s not so situational. Sadira, Cinder, Omen, Maya… many characters approach by air and diferent strenghts of fireflash covers a good portion of the screen. Fired up or with instinct this can lead to a good combo
Don’t sleep on “situational” punishes. There is no reason to ever do a light Jago DP…until there’s someone trying hit you with a deep cross-up. There’s no reason to do a heavy Maya DP…until you’re anticipating the throw and need to get out of the corner.
Not all versions of a move need to or should accomplish the exact same thing. You want to wakeup with something, light fireflash is your move. But if you need to hit an awkward aerial approach - med or heavy fireflash is the way to go.
But Jago’s shadow windkick can’t get stuff by a light punch or a move thrown out later than his shadow windkick.
Cinder’s shadow trailblazer does, thus it’s not that useful.
To me that isn’t any real good. since again, the main form of mobility gets stamped out by a light punch, what good is that if you just end up running to your doom? there’s no real way to have a safe approach. So I NEVER use it unless someone throws out a fireball and that’s on the rare case they do.
Better off just using pyro-bombs and detonating to approach on knock down and that’s it. No trailblazer or shadow-trailblazer for approach. Is it slower? sure is, butit’s better than trail-blazing right into a jab which is just ridiculous.
And the point I was making is there would be no point to worry about that if you can’t get to your opponent in the first place.
Otherwise in some cases I’m not worried about trailblazer juggles because I can use counter-breakers to curb the habit.
Don’t see that happening so much now with the additonal recovery frames. You’ll probably be unable to juggle with consecutive fire flases now.
As someone who regularly fights Glacius I strongly disagree. Since other forms of mobility can be trashed by a simple jump-kick, and with more hail, trailblazer is not going to work so easily as it did before.
Plus Glacius puddle is more versatile so bomb sticking isn’t going to be easy either. Glacius Icicle kick has ALOT of reach and it will hit you most of the time unless you time the DP right. I’ve tried many times against Glacius in the air and that icicle kick hits my much of the time unless I’m lucky enough to time it and hit him instead.
Before the changes people always talked about Glacius’ wasn’t a solid zoner yet if you fought him with Cinder this is the MU where Glacius shines because again: alot of Cinder’s main approach tools are not safe. His shadow trailblazer ca’t approach from great distances and can be stuffed easily so Cinder can’t use his trailblazer or be as mobile in certain strategies if he hopes to stand a chance against Glacius.
Basically Cinder has to sacrafice mobility to be able to fight Glacius without getting stamped and in this case it’s a matter of paitences for Cinder. So instead of trailblazer you have to walk to Glacius.
But again because of the new tools and mobility these same strategies may not be as effective. Really the only truley good thing for Cinder in this match up is Glacius running him over won’t hurt as much due to damage reduction.
Unless you have a quick DP, Glacius Icicle kick is pretty much hard to counter in this case your better off with light-fireflash and that’s pretty much it.
And shdow-trailblazer can still getting stuffed. The strategies I did use against Glacius may still work but they will be a lot harder to use against him, since his zoning and mobility got some big improvements. lacius doesn’t have to work so hard in this match up when setting up defences, Cinder has to really work if is to get in a range where alot of his tools will work. This MU was generally in Glacius favor now it certainly will be with his new buffs.
Only thing I will agree with you on his the new trailblazers will allow Cinder to combat Glacius from mid-range, IF he can even get close enough to do them.
Yeah, you shouldn’t use shadow trailblazer on approach, definitely (unless reacting to a fireball or a low, like Aganos stomp, so… I guess sometimes you DO want to use it to approach!).
But not using regular trailblazer to approach, because it might get hit by a jab? That’s like saying you never use medium wind kick in footsies with Jago because your opponent might DP it. Trailblazer works as an approach because it is incredibly fast and will catch people sleeping all the time. If you do it from far away, you are actually safer on block, so it’s harder (and in some cases impossible) to interrupt followup trailblazers with a normal. In S3 this will be even better as Cinder gets more frame advantage on medium trailblazer.
Didn’t I just say Jumping LK was amazing against Glacius’ jump kicks?
Also, I’m not saying the MU isn’t in Glacius’ favor, I’m just saying Cinder has some effective tools against Glacius that most other characters can’t take advantage of.
Your talking to a guy who used to use it regurly then I kept getting beaten out by attacks that came out only a few frames later to mine. If this was Jago we’re talking about, the kick would of gotten their first, but in Cinders case, I can throw out a shadow-trailblazer and then get hit by an attack that came a bit later than mine It’s ridiculous to get stuff in that same way. so instead of risking and getting hit, I take a slower approach. I don’t use trailblazer willy-nilly and neither do I ever use shadow-trailblazer as freely.
it may not be totally useless but against zoning characters, this something I’d rather not throw out.
I just told you I disagreed with that since again we’re talking about range here. a short kick isn’t gonna beat a kick that reaches half way across the screen. Plus timing is also the key, I whiff that kick, before his icicle kick comes out, I get an icicle to the groin.
and sure Cinder does have some tools he can use but if you can’t get close, those said tools will not work much for you. save for pyro-bombs and that’s only if you can get some on Glacius. Again his main form of mobility can get stuffed easily and this one of the reasons Glacius can do so well against Cinder. Every fight I had in this match-up I had to REALLY work and be patient if I had a chance to win.
the improved mobility is going to make this tough match-up even tougher. I’ve fought Glacius almost exclusively as Cinder and he is the most hardest character for me in this MU simply because of the range of his attacks and his defenses really shine on this.
To be clear I am not calling for nerfs on lacius here, I’m just stating why I think this MU is primarily in Glacius favor. It isn’t impossible to win against Glacius but it’s certainly ALOT harder than the other cast.
The main issue I’m talking is a match where you may not be any closer than half screen from Glacius and considering the new tools Glacius got, Glacius shouldn’t have much trouble with this but in Cinders case, he’ll have a bigger wall of defense to break through.
Ok I jut did a record where I had Glacius jump and use HK constantly, and this against constant jumping and kicking…
Ok, from what I can tell this can work, but it’s all about the timing. Honestly it MIGHT be good in this instance but…more practice mig be required for it to be effective.
I’d honestly would much rather use fire-flash as a safer option to this.because 1: if you whiff you’re less likely to get hit and you both pretty much miss.
maybe I should test @Infilament 's theroy and see if shadow Trailblazer is any good after an inferno.
EDIT: Ok after testing I found out a few things:
YES It is true that @Infilament 's theroy about cancing shadow-trailblazer into fired-up works. While pretty damn secret (I wouldn’t of know about this if @Infilament hadn’t said anything about it.) it can ACTUALLY reach your opponent if you cancel from fired-up inferno. Obviously nothing happens with regular inferno.
And if you just do it raw aside from getting punched out with a jab, you really will just BARELY reach your opponent just close enough to poked in the face.
Safe to assume the reason behind this is that it’s basically a linker, so it should naturally get in there and reach.
The best part about this is that this the safest way to use shadow-trailblazer and likely the most effective.
The only drawback is waiting 8 seconds and if you’re low on life and you need to get in, this can be a problem but it’s a situational issue and hopefully when used before hand can make the difference.
Long story short, if you want to approach, use fired-up inferno into shadow-trailblazer or we can probably just have a nickname for this thing.
@SonicDolphin117 's theory about light kick working is possible. The drawback though is timing and is feels more of a coin flip than anything else, so unless you got master timing, probably safer to do a light fireflash to stop HK spam from Glacius.
Now will this make Cinder’s fight against Glacius easier I cannot say, I’ll have to fight against the toughest Glacius player, the one who regularly beats me in these matches. @Justathereptile
Tommorow I’ll try to fight a couple matches with him and if I can get some cosistant wins with these than MAYBE the match-up may not be as bad as @SonicDolphin117 claims.
It has a lot of active frames so use it early and it’ll cover you for most of your jump’s duration. Make sure to follow with medium trailblazer if you’re close enough.
It’s useful but I’d probably feel more comfortable with fire-flash wouldn’t want to risk the last pixel of my life on a kick that might work if it comes down to timing.
Considering my luck I’m never close enough to even use trailblazer when it happens as you can guess I usually get hit with the tip. and it usually occurs when Glacius is retreating.