Petitions failed to get everyone interested in Bloody Roar getting a comeback.
I don’t know what will to get the game companies like BN or KT interested in buying BR from Konami.
… uh …
Edit:
It’s a moot point because I doubt MS is interested, but I think they did a good job acquiring up and coming studios. Sega and Konami, despite what we all love about them, are failing studios. It’s awfully hard to imagine turning around a studio like that and it would be even worse to get tarred with “well, MS ruined Konami…”
Yes, Andy? Got something you wish to share?
Just teasing you for creative misuse of the English language.
English isn’t my first language, so sorry about that.
How’d you say it?
I would just say “failure” but it only tickled me. It’s not a big deal I’m not criticizing your English which is obviously very good.
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Back to the focus at hand, how are we gonna convince the best gaming companies for fighting games (minus Capcom & Netherrealm) to buy Bloody Roar from Konami?
Yeah I doubt they’re interested as well, and I also think they did a good job in acquiring the studios they were able to acquire.
See I look at companies like Sega and Konami, and I see more of a fixer upper situation. I think most gamers that pay attention to companies like these two are aware of just how far they’ve fallen from their once prestigious positions among the industry’s elite.
I mean let’s be honest here, Sega hasn’t been exceedingly relevant since the Dreamcast, PS2, GameCube and Xbox generation. So if MS were able to acquire this company from Sammy, is there any real downside? Sure, maybe they mess up a few franchises that had already been gone for a while, letting fans of those series down. Maybe fans of the games they still put out like Total War, Football Manager, and Hatsune Miku don’t like how MS takes care of their franchises.
But are those really horrible downsides? I don’t think so. I also don’t think that anyone would attribute Sega’s downfall to Microsoft’s mismanagement should any of that come to pass. It’s already pretty far down compared to what it once was.
Same goes for Konami. While it was more relevant much more recently, I think it’s safe to say that the word is out to most of the fans of their franchises, such as Castlevania or Metal Gear Solid. If anything, I see a TON of negativity leveled at Konami these days, and while that’s anecdotal at best, I still can’t imagine the gaming media or fans raking MS over the coals if they attempted to bring back a lot of their franchises and failed miserably. Well, they wouldn’t love it, but I don’t think they’d be tarred with “MS ruined Konami.” I think most that know Konami over the last few years know they’ve pretty much done that to themselves.
So if the downsides of poor performance aren’t all that bad, and the upside is owning several new IPs and actually getting them right, at least to the point where fans buy more of you products, well, I think you could have some fans saying that MS saved these companies and these IPs from oblivion and I think that gets you some decent credit and good will with gamers, even if some will still scoff and say it’s not the same, or whatever.
Who knows, I could be way off on this, but I tend to think the floor is relatively low for some of these companies, while the ceiling is pretty high.
Yeah, I mean it gets complicated because there’s a whole set of business issues that I know just enough about to know I can’t speak intelligently about them.
Konami, for example, is a wasteland of game development but has a cash printing business making Pachinko games in Japan which often borrow from their gaming IPs. They may be perfectly happy with where they are even though we would all like to see more video games. So should MS buy the game development studio? The rights to make games using Konami characters? There could be all kinds of reasons not to do this. And “I would love to play cool new videogames based on nostalgia for their IP” is a wonderful thought but it’s not a business case.
Sega, as far as I know, has no substantial business outside of game development but I can imagine there are still lots of business reasons no one has done this. Frankly, Nintendo is a far better fit to acquire Sega and merge their franchises. They already appear to have a good relationship and the brands are better aligned. But I don’t really know anything so this is all just castles in the clouds.
Regarding the downside, though, I think we are reaching a turning point in popular culture where the downsides for nostalgia and resurrecting past franchises are starting to outweigh the benefits. Looking at movies like Star Wars and Star Trek, and games like MvCi where (elements of) the fan base has turned on the creators in increasingly vicious and divisive ways I have to wonder why anyone would bother. Reputation always damage from these kinds of controversies is a real problem.
So, if I’m managing a game development portfolio for MS or Sony or any other powerhouse and I’m looking at the landscape I would seriously question why I would waste time and money going after the IP for Castlevania when I could build something new but similar (ie bloodstained) or acquire the rights to someone else’s IP that is not yet established but on a good trajectory (like HollowKnight).
Yeah don’t get me wrong, Konami doesn’t “need” MS or their money. They have plenty of other businesses outside of gaming that will sustain them just fine without needing to put out what I’m sure would have to be an uber-expensive MGS game each generation.
But I think it would make sense for Microsoft because they do have the money to put the kind of investment in that would make having the MGS franchise a substantial feather in their cap. Same goes for Castlevania, Silent Hill, Suikoden, Pro Evolution Soccer, etc.
MS hasn’t had the best of luck building up their own stable of quality, reliable IPs, and that dates back to the original Xbox. Sure, they have Halo, Gears and Forza, but even other good titles with less name recognition tend to get left by the wayside. Fable coming back will be big news when that happens, but what else do they really have that would shock and excite their base?
Don’t get me wrong, I love Crimson Skies, Lost Odyseey, Kameo, MechAssault, Killer Instinct and other titles they’ve put out over the years, but they never seem to follow up on them. To me, that’s a problem when you’re looking at the next console. Sure, new IPs are great, but I tend to think that many gamers buy a future console not just for the stuff they don’t know about, but for the stuff they expect.
So it’s not just that nostalgia is nice and I want to play new versions of old games. It’s more that I want to have more solid, reliable reasons to buy a console as opposed to having to rely on what cool stuff might be coming down the pipeline. This is especially the case when a system doesn’t do as well with their first party offerings on a console. I look at XB1 and I don’t really see a whole lot of high tier, high quality games released in the last five years. Lots of games that get around a 7 or 8 in the review scores, but very few above that outside of their holy trinity.
I believe Sega still has some arcade business going, though not really in the US. Not sure if they do much with amusements anymore. I tend to see people that think Sega and Nintendo are better aligned for the reasons you listed here; good relationship and brand similarity.
I know it was quite a while ago, but Sega paired up rather nicely with the first Xbox, releasing several games on that console before really going multiplatform. I could be wrong, but I’d have to think there’s still at least a decent relationship there. I certainly haven’t heard otherwise.
As for their brands, I think Sega does some things similar to what Nintendo does, so is it better to have more of the same things, or to help fill in the gaps for a company that doesn’t do those things as much or as well? I don’t really know the answer to that, but as much as I can see Sega’s IPs fitting in well on the Switch and whatever Nintendo puts out after that, I could also see the same result on Microsoft’s consoles, even though the reasons are slightly different.
Yeah, that’s certainly true.
Still though, while acknowledging that there will be a small, but vocal minority that you’ll never make happy no matter what, I think success with the larger base and casual groups would depend on how demanding or ravenous a particular community is and how high or reasonable their standards are overall.
Star Wars fans have become one of the toxic and fickle fanbases in all of nerd-dom. As far as MvCI goes, the FGC can be particularly brutal, especially if we’re talking about high profile games that tend to appeal to the hardcore base.
Meanwhile, when Sega brought Golden Axe back about ten years ago as Beastrider: Golden Axe and it failed miserably, I don’t recall Sega taking a metric ton of flak for that from rabid Golden Axe fans. So while I think that there’s always potential pitfalls in bringing back franchises that people knew and loved long ago, I’m not sure bringing back most of Sega’s franchises would be quite as risky as Star Wars or MvCI, at least not to the point where failure would be so damaging. Maybe I’m wrong though.
That’s fair. Thing with purchasing Konami or Sega though versus buying the Bloodstained Dev or purchasing the HollowKnight studio is that you don’t just get a good Castlevania clone or a good Metroidvania game. You get several IPs; games a lot of people still know. Sure, if you put out poor quality titles, the fanbase might turn on you and some might be pretty mean about it, but as long as you can develop the games relatively well, I see more upside in having several new, well-known IPs at your disposal as more of a benefit than a drawback.
Of course, as you said, this is all moot.
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This is true, of course. But it’s been true that since the advent of the internet you could count on nerds to complain on the internet. What’s relatively new is that now they don’t just complain, they actively work to destroy things. Used to be they would complain but still buy stuff.
This is probably the subject for a different thread, but I’m convinced that MS just views this fundamentally differently than we do, as consumers. They have so consistently failed to invest in and develop new or mid-range internal IP that, in my completely armchair opinion, it almost HAS to be due to a different set of strategic priorities rather than lack of competence. I just think they have a very different metric for success but I can’t piece together what it is. It’s possible that, like EA with their E3 conferences they are striving to keep investors happy rather than gamers. This would explain why they continue to invest so heavily in Forza and especially Forza Horizon - which always looks amazing but sells poorly. But it likely plays well with investors to have a beautiful racing game to show off. Same reason they show a uselessly short Halo Infinite clip - just to remind the stock market they still have Halo.
Anyway, while their recent acquisitions are great, it will take a lot of additional evidence to make me think they are fundamentally reworking their game development strategy.
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I don’t think I’ll ever understand this part of our culture. This “I like it, I love it, I own it, I hate it, I must destroy it” cycle of fandom is the absolute worst. It really bothers me that these people are so self-absorbed and have such tunnel vision that they can actually feel a sense of righteousness from their own negativity, rage and need to take something not just from the people employed to create, but also from many other fans that don’t share their opinion.
It’s utterly astounding how many people can’t simply recognize that something is no longer for them and just move on with their lives. I’m not even here to judge people’s priorities when it comes to their passion. I have games and movies and what not that I probably care more about than I should, but if I get something new that’s nowhere near what I want or expect, I might say “this is disappointing” or “I guess this isn’t for me and that’s fine,” usually followed up with my hope that those that are interested wind up enjoying it.
Why can’t it be that simple for some of these people? Just a “ah well, I like the other ones, but not this one” and either look forward to the next one or move on? It’s really somewhat sad.
It’s strange though, isn’t it? There have been multiple Xbox leaders and many of them have stressed different gaming ideologies over the course of their tenures, but yet this strange issue has persisted. I’m obviously speaking from my own armchair here, but how can you think that more familiar franchises that are known for their quality, over more genres is somehow a bad thing?
I guess if you want to invest in new IP, the money has to come from somewhere?
If you ever figure that out, please let me know. I’m not saying that in a snide way either. I’m legitimately curious what internal philosophy has prevented them from investing in their own IPs year after year. I’ve heard Phil Spencer talk about it repeatedly as well, saying they’re planning to do this and it doesn’t seem as though it’s really borne fruit to this point.
Well, we did get Halo Wars 2 as well as remasters of Phantom Dust and Voodoo Vince, but I dunno, maybe I’m greedy for expecting a bit more?
Yeah, maybe that’s also why they’ve had such an emphasis on hardware this generation with the One S and the One X. Hardware always seems to move the needle. With Horizon, I kinda see that logic as making sense for multiple games that they’ve left withering on the vine, but who knows, maybe they see Forza as a more recognizable and marketable brand than trying to convince players that weren’t around for the first Xbox why they should care that Crimson Skies was getting a sequel or something like that.
And see this is key for me, and why I was making the argument for purchasing a company like Konami or Sega. I’ve purchased every Xbox console on day one without giving it a second thought, but now, I’m starting to wonder why I should even care about the next system.
If they continue their current trend, we likely won’t get a new Killer Instinct next generation, so that’s one of the biggest reasons knocked off right there for me. Halo, Gears and Forza are all showing their age. That’s three other substantial reasons to own an Xbox gone (again, for me). They’ve shown no interest in bringing back my favorite franchises from their past systems (Lost Odyssey, Crimson Skies, MechAssault, Kameo) and I see little reason to think that they’ll keep going with Sunset Overdrive (since they passed on SO2).
To me, all of those games I listed there are about 80% of the reason why I’d want another Xbox system. To me, that’s more or less their gaming ecosystem. If it’s all either stale or absent entirely, then they need substantial reasons to own their system and I don’t see how they get that from the studios they purchased and created. I don’t know, maybe I’m wrong, but I think they’ll need to do something huge to get people hyped for the next system and all of its possibilities.
Sorry, I know we’ve been a bit off topic, but I do believe that this pertains to Bloody Roar, as I see a purchase of Konami, or perhaps even just their IP library for game sales (and they can keep the licenses for pachinko machines or whatever) as the kind of huge, jaw dropping investment / news that could get fans excited for the next generation of Xbox.
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Yeah, @Iago407 I see what your saying. I think to understand why MS would or wouldn’t want to acquire something like Konami or Sega one has to better understand their overall philosophy and frankly I don’t. Or maybe I do and I just don’t want to?
For Bloody Roar I think KI is the test case. I really think MS doesn’t have a vision to be a fighting game developer. I think KI was made to round out the Xbox lineup and check the box. Having checked the box, I have a hard time imagining they have any interest in a new fighting game franchise. Maybe I’m wrong. But even if they were interested in developing FGC dominance it seems like investing in more KI would make a lot more sense than dusting off something like Bloody Roar. I would probably go after Virtua Fighter and even a couple of other franchises first. No offense, Bloody Roar fans.
The anomaly that always gives me hope is Forza Horizon. MS has an absolutely stellar franchise in Forza that ticks of the “racing” genre and comes out at a regular interval in order to make investors happy. The Horizon games, which by the way I think are amazing, don’t seem to tick a different box nor do they sell very well. But MS clearly keeps investing AAA budgets to develop them. The next one looks absurdly good. So here you have a niche market title of questionable value to the Xbox brand, with poor sales performance and bucking the trend MS is clearly giving the developers all the support they need to keep the franchise not just alive but getting better and better. Maybe they just have a great relationship or a smooth talking sales pitch. But if MS had similar arrangements with just a couple of other franchises it could completely turn around perceptions of their first party lineup.
I haven’t read your discussion above, so sorry if this has already been mentioned…
But I can imagine Konami being so petty that they don’t want to waste money on making a new Bloody Roar because they don’t think it will pay off, but they will definitely not want anyone else to try and make money off of it, so they keep the IP license to themselves and don’t wanna sell it.
That’s what so many of us thought about EA and the System Shock IP, and they eventually sold it to Nightdive Studios (hence why we got re-releases of those games at all). Considering Konami is in many ways the Japanese version of EA I could see them eventually stop caring altogether, and just selling it away.
Just don’t expect it until 20 years later, that’s about how long it took for System Shock to come back into the light.