Breaking two moves at the same time, man

I think anyone who uses manuals has seen this plenty of times: If the offensive player is in a combo and does manual > Shadow Linker, but is broken in the final frames of the manual, the combo breaker comes out during the startup to the Shadow Linker, and the offensive player still loses his/her meter.

It happens all the time to me and I’ve lost more than a handful of matches because of it. I’ve seen it on streams and in tournaments, and the general reaction (that I’ve seen) from commentators/chat is, “uh… yeah, that just happens.” I can’t think of a justification for why this is anything but a bug, but its existence over several months would suggest otherwise. There are plenty of bugs that remain from past months, but this one is a system bug that affects every character and can have huge impact in competitive play, so I feel it’s a bit strange that it hasn’t been fixed yet. I’m making this post because maybe I’m missing something and a dev/expert/armchair expert could give an explanation for why (not so much how) it happens.

So what is its classification? Low priority bug? Bug that is hard to fix? Bug that is being fixed? A kooky glitch that we all reminisce about in 17 years?

■■■■■■’ A

I’ve had instances where I’ll break during a certain move with the proper combo-breaker and it won’t give me the break or even a lockout - and I know every fasset of the combo system (like when you can’t break, for example) or perform the combo-breaker during a move, but despite it being correct, I get locked out during the NEXT move instead - almost as if there was some sort of delay (I’ve always attributed to simply being online, but it doesn’t make it suck any less)…

I’ve even used an AD to bait a combo-breaker into my counter-breaker, which then locks out my opponent, but then I doesn’t give me the benefit of continuing my combo!

This game, while great, really erks me sometimes… :frowning:

It happens to me a lot too. In all likelihood that’s a lag/rollback issue… or you didn’t press the two buttons at the same time, causing a timing issue.

i dont like it either , but i must say . This looks REALLY AMAZING . I like The way it looks, it could look better transfering the shadow effect on the launched opponent.

But i dont know how hard to fix could be this.

I would like it to be fixed.

This probably just happens because the breaking and cancel windows for manuals are so small and right next to each other. I don’t know how much start up combo breakers have (if they have any at all) but shadow moves freeze the game instantly so both things are likely happening on the same frame and you end up with this happening. There really isn’t anything that can be done without changing the cancel window for manuals which would probably cause more problems than it’s worth.

Lately it’s happening to me a lot during Rash’s target combo. Even worse than other cases because Rash’s shadow move comes automatically after mashing light punch a few times.

Combo Breakers are not instant. They have startup time. So after you are confirmed successful, there is a very short wait period before your Combo Breaker attack with bat your opponent away. During this time, if your opponent cancelled into a Shadow Move, that move will be in the process of starting up (and meter is consumed on the 1st frame), but the Combo Breaker is still valid (as it should be) so you get batted out of it.

This is not a bug. This is a natural result of the way Combo Breakers work, and it has been this way since the game launched with 6 characters in Season 1.

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Yeah, I understand how it works, but thanks for the full explanation.

I at least hope that it’s not a desired result. It’s annoying to lose meter because my opponent hit a guess-break, rather going through the risk of a 1-2-3 break. It’s extra frustrating as an Aganos player, since I’m losing meter (required for any kind of invulnerability) AND not replacing the chunk I probably used to open up my opponent. It severely hampers my defensive capability while simultaneously placing me into a more defensive position. It’s a huge swing in momentum for a simple guess-break.

I have little programming experience, much less video game programming… but maybe you could have meter be consumed on frame 4 or something so that it can’t overlap with the combo breaker startup? Then again, I highly doubt this hasn’t been thought of, since we’re having this discussion in the first place, which tells me it’s probably not that simple.

I’m not sure why you’d say ‘because my opponent hit a guess break’. They are playing by the same rules as you. They have access to the same information. You’ve chosen to take a known risk by inputting manual into shadow move. They’ve taken a risk by inputting a break on a manual (which could be a read, or an educated guess based on what you opened with or which linker you performed, but isn’t a reaction). You came out on the short end this time. If you wanted them to deal with a Shadow Linker Breaker, why perform the manual at all? Why not do your Shadow Linker right after your opener, instead of doing something you know carries this risk?

There are a lot of reasons why Breaker and Shadow Moves need to work they way they do, so no, the team does not consider this an issue. This is and always has been part of the game.

Thanks for the insight, but I personally disagree. If he breaks the manual, I should keep my shadow meter, no matter if I had it queued or not.

Well, Aganos can’t do a Shadow Payload Assault “linker” (though it’s a de facto ender) directly after an opener. If not a manual, he has to do at least a medium/heavy linker or heavy autodouble, both of which carry quite a bit of risk (for me at least).

Now, I’m going to argue against myself by acknowledging that after the manual, this setup does lead into unbreakable 40-60% damage + possible chunk + safe counter breaker + a weight debuff glitch, and the premature break on the manual is the risk in performing it. Also, it doesn’t obey the 1-2-3 break that I mentioned.

In a more general sense, I just think that if I input 2 moves and the first one is broken, it shouldn’t matter what the second one was. I agree there’s a known risk involved, but I don’t think that risk should be there. I don’t think it happens every time, does it (I’ll have to confirm that)? If it doesn’t, I don’t think anyone intentionally breaks manuals on the final frame so that they also break a possible Shadow Linker. If it happened every time (again, I might be BS-ing here), then I would disagree less with it.

But hey, if there’s no way to change this without drastic measures, then so be it.