After playing this game a year after it’s conception and continuing for about 2 years, then stopping at the end of season three because the game got stale. I’m finally redownloading the game after a few months for a 750 subscriber special. I finally go back on the forums to find that ultra tour is coming up and remebering watching live seeing all the character reworks and season 3 being announced and being hyped. Now keeping this in mind (last year’s was very stale) with a over a year of prep and no real fourum chatter like there used to be. Do u guys think they will announce something huge to revamp the game? Or just leave ki in the dust. This was one of my favorite games I hope they come out with real content soon
Well, the current game is done, so there’s no season 4 on the horizon. As for a sequel, I sincerely hope we get one. I’m also hoping that they’ve been working on it since Shadowlords launched so that we might get some sort of announcement at E3 or KIWC.
Who knows though. Maybe now that IG has released Extinction, they can funnel more resources in to a KI sequel. Or maybe MS is getting a new team. I hope it’s IG though.
Either way, announcement would be awesome, but I’d be surprised if we heard anything this year. I sincerely hope this series isn’t lost to history though, as this game laid such a brilliant foundation for the future of this franchise, it’d be such a shame to see all that potential for even bigger and better things go unrealized.
As @Iago407 said, I’d be very surprised to see anything this year regarding new KI content.
So much this. The problem I have with anyone else working on a new KI is they don’t know what IG and MS had troubles implementing and in what ways. IG knows there were problems with implementing Accessories in an affordable manner, and in what ways they were troublesome. Same with Ultimates/Cinematic finishers. Therefore, they’d most likely be able to build a new KI with those things in mind.
That being said, Keits has said he doesn’t want to work on fighting games anymore. That doesn’t mean that IG wouldn’t be working on it. I just liked his way of explaining things. In all honesty, I liked that he attempted to have a presence within the community. I don’t understand people’s toxicity. I hope he changes his mind and takes another shot at it.
Tweet for anyone who hasn’t seen:
Yeah I didn’t see that tweet, but I really truly hope that the people who drove this developer to hate being a developer for his own game, who has displayed his passion for this genre for years, realize and own what they did here.
The people that were just a little too snarky, a little too entitled, a little too into armchair developing, a little too much of the belief that harassment can be justified if you have an opinion because you’re the customer, and they’re customer service 24/7.
Great job, squeaky wheel people. Those that had to make a crusade out of not liking the game or even certain issues with the game that they had, no matter how small, operating under the assumption that the devs simply need to hear them because they’re right, or hope enough that they’ll make changes the more they get such valued feedback, etc. You… Won? I guess?
Don’t get me wrong, everyone’s entitled to their opinion and everyone’s allowed to state that opinion wherever and how often they like. But being allowed to shouldn’t mean that people just avoid all common decency all the time.
The severe lack of maturity and self-awareness some people seem to have when it comes to talking about something that’s supposed to be fun is MIND BOGGLING. If you don’t like something, then state your case, and if a developer actually takes the time to acknowledge you and justify their decision, then realize you’ve been heard and accept the fact that everything won’t be to your liking and you can’t always get what you want.
Even if they don’t address you directly or address the issue specifically; even if they didn’t take the time to justify every single change in a new patch… At some point, there has to be a realization in people that at the end of the day, the game is for everyone, not just you, and that it’s okay to have parts of a game that don’t suit your aesthetic taste, your gameplay preferences, etc.
I’m sorry, I know I’m not treading new ground here, but to see Keits speak the way he speaks now versus what he was like when IG first took over the game… I mean… PEOPLE DID THAT TO HIM. People changed his mind on doing something I’m sure he loved when he first started.
I know that because I’d love to write a story for a fighting game some day, even if I’m sure there would be people that would rip it to shreds. So stop and think about something you’d love doing; a dream job or a really cool project or whatever, and imagine having something you did, something you were passionate about and put all your time in effort in to so thoroughly thrashed.
Not just by people in the same room, who constantly offer you suggestions on changes, ask why you did this or that, etc. But people out in the world that you’ll never meet, streaming your project or passion and berating it as their followers trash it. Imagine that there are people out there that hate what you did so much that they make videos about it.
Imagine getting that to such an extent that you actually decide to throw your hands up and say “I don’t want to make that anymore.”
Do any of those people care? Do any of them feel justified or like it was worth it?
@TheKeits helped design some of the most fun and unique characters I’ve ever played in a fighting game in my life. So to see him say something like that, honestly… It’s borderline heartbreaking as a fan of this game, a fan of the genre, and a fan of the people that work hard to make games that we enjoy.
Gaming culture has a sickness; a rot that’s permeated all aspects of what should be an enjoyable experience. It’s the same rot that’s infested the rest of our culture. This idea that everyone thinks they need to be heard to SUCH an extent that the ends justify the means.
That alone isn’t the worst thing in the world, but when it’s combined with the idea that the internet lets everyone reach almost anyone and that anonymity or even non-anonymity (it’s that bad now) further combined with distance that seems to remove people’s filter, so they say whatever horrible thing they’re thinking without consequence, all while connecting with others that have the same awful opinions.
Well, there you don’t just have immaturity, ignorance or obnoxiousness, now you have something that feels weaponized; a malignancy that spreads and effect others and get noticed and becomes a substantial part of the culture to such an extent that it more or less becomes accepted. Even expected.
Again, not new ground, I know. But it’s worth repeating. Fans did this. KI fans. FGC fans. They drove this guy to feel this way and ■■■■■■■ sucks that they either don’t realize it, don’t acknowledge it, or perhaps don’t even care.
Maybe some don’t realize they’re part of the problem. Maybe I’m part of the problem and I don’t even realize it. Again, self-awareness.
But it’d be amazing if one day, fans didn’t see people with constructive criticism or those that want to people to treat developers with dignity, respect and with basic human decency as sheep, or cheerleaders, and actually came to realize that whole process of fandom (I like it, I love it, I own it, I hate it, I must destroy it) is anathema to their own enjoyment as well as (sometimes), the enjoyment of others as well as the enjoyment of people that work the long hours to make what they’re playing.
Maybe if these people realized when they were toxic and actually cared about the toxicity they were generating and spreading, and how it actually effects others, they might do themselves and the world a favor and simply rephrase criticism, rethink their position, try to see the other side, or perhaps even keep the bad thoughts in their head, let them swirl around for a bit, and ultimately flush them.
It won’t happen, of course. But something has to change at some point, because things are only getting worse.
TL/DR: The people that make other people not want to do something they really enjoy are sucky people indeed and they should learn not to see as much amusement in that as many clearly seem to.
You said that way better than I ever could have.
First of all, beautiful sentiment and I agree 100%. It’s bigger than gaming and it’s all about the internet. People used to vent their socially unacceptable feelings (or stupid ideas about game development) at home or in private spaces. Now they display their stupidity on the internet where it attracts likeminded idiots from every crevice of the world.
They won’t. They either don’t care and have obliviously moved on, or they will rationalize it or blame others just as people in a mob have always done.
I think even more than you realize this is a big part of the problem. Just like the moment people bought that horse armor for Elder Scrolls sealed our fate when it came to DLC and micro transactions, I think the pivotal moment for video games on the internet was when EA and Bioware altered the ending for Mass Effect 3. No matter how you felt about the ending of the game, they should not have done this. It has convinced every idiot in the internet that it is somehow his responsibility to FREAK OUT over every conceivable thing I’m the hope that the developer might cave and give it to him. When you question these guys you realize that for many of them they don’t actually care that much but typing on the internet is easy so they play at being enraged to see if they can get something. Case in point all the folks asking for free stuff from KI (“I bought the XYZ edition so I should get the free stuff that released later for the ZAB edition! No fair!!!”).
The problem is individuals have a hard time contextualizing internet criticism, but so do managers and corporations. They respond to internet outrage as if it is real - like it’s a march or a letter writing campaign. But it’s so easy and effortless to campaign on the internet that it isn’t the same.
Anyway that’s enough grumpy old man for a Friday afternoon.
In truth, I’m kind of on the fence with this. I think the internet is a double-edged sword sometimes, and there is always going to be bad along with the good. You are right, before the advent of the internet, all people could do is gripe at home or maybe write a letter to the BBB if they really hated the product. Unfortunately in those days, if you purchased a game that was terrible, you were pretty much stuck with it. Think of all the DC fans that purchased Superman 64 only to find out that it was anything but super. In those days if a game was poorly developed and released as such, you simply got a bad product. You virtually had no way other than the BBB to voice a complaint, and most game makers had no way of fixing such glitches. Everything was as is.
Today, despite the sometimes negativity that spews out, most developers keep a pulse as to how their products are doing and often offer free updates to fix issues or better the over all experience of the players.
You bring up Mass Effect 3. Honestly, how could have anybody been expected to be happy with that game as is. I agree that Bioware’s “ending” patch was unnecessary, as it wasn’t the core of the complaint. It was the fact that this game boasted that ALL of your decisions from ME1 to ME3 would impact how the game ended. The entire premise of game 3 was to build an alliance that would help you win the final battle. All of your efforts though only changed the battle cinematic…an epic final battle that you don’t take part in. Finally, the biggest complaint and what REALLY should have been looked into was the “Final Boss” of which was Door A, Door B, or Door C.
Had Mass Effect been an average game nobody would care, but there was a lot of passion but into the first two games and I know of several gamers who were passionate about the franchise, including buying books, soundtracks, and any and all collectibles. The fact that the final battle for the entire franchise boiled down to a button click, was a let down. I think fans had every right to complain. I think EA along with Bioware did an admiral job trying to please the fans.
Let’s also look at Destiny 2 for example. D2 was released with high expectations, and even though it looked great, the game felt rushed, and was over all lacking in End Game content. Hell, even the raid gear lacked actual raid functionality, so no matter what you worked for you had no advantage over somebody who never did a raid. People complained, especially those who would spend hours learning the mechanics for some of the toughest challenges in the game. Fans had ever right to be upset. A sequel was released that was far worse off than the original vanilla Destiny 1. Bungie made some bad choices, however due to the complaints they made a list of what players wanted most and started to work on it.
Had they not listened to feedback, Destiny 2 would have been dead in the water. While there is still a lot of work to do, fans are starting to come back.
As a creative, I love feedback, both positive and negative. If somebody just wants to insult, I let it go into one ear and out the other.
This is why most developers have Community managers, as not every member has thick skin. In respect to Keits, I think he should have let KI’s community managers handle all the feedback.
You can’t deny that what he did was admirable. He attempted to have a direct open dialog with the community of the game he loved making. We don’t really get that, and was super refreshing, to me, to get an actual designer’s opinions and reasons as to why they did things, instead of having a PR filter. It’s the main reason why I love watching Blizzcon, even though I don’t play any Blizzard titles other than Diablo 3. As well as getting to watch devs’ and designers’ talks at GDC. (Mick Gordon’s DOOM presentation anyone?)
Should he have gone through a PR filter? Maybe. Was it all bad? Absolutely not. Keits has learned what not to engage the fan base on, and has also, probably, gained thicker skin. It’s not easy to have your work criticized, especially with the impunity that some had.
More importantly, as a community we should take this experience and use it to shape how we deal with receiving answers we don’t like, and how to help give constructive criticism.
Side Note re Destiny 2: I wouldn’t say it released worse than 1.0 D1, but definitely worse than post TTK. Which is really bad. TTK was a huge turn around for D1 and should have been the basis of which they made D2 on. The fact that they’re having a Summit to hear the community’s feedback (through Destiny 2 streamers) is a good step. But if they still mess up, there is no return for me and a lot of other people, and the only reason I’m even giving them this last chance is because I bought the Season Pass.
I don’t hate the internet. I don’t even hate people complaining on the internet. But that’s not the subject of the discussion. It’s the new mob mentality filmed with exaggerated invective.
As far as Keits, I refuse to blame the victim. The guy made the “mistake” of talking openly with the community about the game and instead of respecting the implied social contract, a big chuck of the community threw a tantrum. To this day I can’t sort out what people actually wanted instead of what they got. Ask ten of them you get eleven different answers all of which boil down to “I want it to be good. Not like this.”
Even after everything went down, the developers still demonstrated to be receptive to fan feedback on balance and such. They definitely didn’t shut out the community or anything. We can be grateful for that, at least.
Hopefully Keits will continue being involved with developing a sequel at IG, because I think it’d be very hard to find a designer who understands KI as much as him at this point.
Definitely not. Bungie made a lot of design changes that have backfired and they’re continuing to backpedal on, and the endgame features were an unacceptably severe regression, but D2 was a more robust package than D1 at launch with a substantially better standard of content quality in place.