That just means end your combo early and prepare to deal with the minion.
Yeah taking that little damage to enter OP mode is super worth it for gargos players. The game is encouraging the player to do x no matter what because itās almost always the best choice. Which is braindead and a design issue currently.
I agree that in general, compared to other FGs, KI builds a lot of bar fast. In KI, does Gargos build meter exceptionally fast with no minions present? I wouldnāt say so.
To your second point, Iād argue that summoning minions willy nilly is summoning minions minus one hit point and the opportunity to get into a position to āprotect the minionā in the first place, and ultimately a wasted bar.
Luckily minions have 2-3 health points, making them hard to kill even they are hit once. And when you hit them once they become unhittable for a period.
What constitutes little damage?
Yep. You have to hit them more than once. You have to do a little adaptation yourself instead of just running a clinic on an otherwise largely defenseless bully.
Which is fine if the minion cycle didnāt exist which brings me back to my pretty reasonable suggestion.
Still donāt like the timer rule.
Iām trying to make the character less braindead for the betterment of the game competitively. He will still be a really good character with this nerf, you simply spend more time actually playing the character than you used too vs. playing as the no weakness character gargos + minions.
If gargos was a braindead character then there would have been more complaints months ago.
People have been complaining plenty before Evo. Also Gargos isnāt braindead gargos + minions is and the fact that the braindead version of gargos cycles into itself for the majority of the match is a problem.
I think youāre expecting a bit too much in terms of traditional methodology in terms of his design. Insofar as I understand it, his archetype is supposed to be āplayable bossā. Having a prioritized strategy (with priority number one being āmobsā) that can result in a chaos of hitboxes is pretty standard fare for bosses. So is forcing the opponent to approach them a little differently - especially when that approach amounts to āsmother them and donāt let upā. I think itās actually a really clever design.
I really think the minion cycle could lose its ābraindeadednessā with the meter bug fix, actually quite the opposite. You wonāt be able to constantly replenish them, so youāll have to be much more thoughtful with your timing while pressuring - he doesnāt really have much of a pressure game without minions either as it is.
Utilizing what the minions offer IS playing the character. Without minions, heās more weakness than strength.
I personally think 8-10 seconds of cooldown is not reasonable at all. I detect salt.
First off 0 salt I play the character heās a blast but clearly has some balance design issues.
2nd I think gargos is a super cool concept as a playable boss that actually has times where he feels like a cheap boss but he simply currently promotes 0 thought in the biggest strength and currently main focus of his entire gameplan aka the minion cycle.
3rd he will still feel like a boss character even with this cooldown nerf, when minions are out its no question heās the best character in the game and will still feel like a boss Iām not touching the minions abilities at all.
4th I disagree that minions not building meter will be enough to make gargos struggle building meter while minions are out but Iām totally willing to see if itās enough to kill the minion cycle but Iām guessing itās not due to just how fast you build meter in Ki.
And Finally saying normal gargos is more weakness than strength is something I definitely dont agree with, without minions he feels like a mid tier zoner who can compete but clearly has bad match ups due to his poor up close defensive game/wakeup thankfully ki has the breaker system and gargos has 2 free breakers with instinct also god mode thanks to minions, I consider gargos and gargos with minions to be two separate characters in a way thanks to how different your strategy becomes once a minion hits the field.
Ps. I simply want to do my best to eliminate braindead gameplay from a game I love competitively regardless of whether Gargos is the best in the game or not. Also my suggestions donāt kill the character or make him less than A tier in any way shape or form. Also maybe it should be 5 secs if 8-10 is too long but 8 is most likely fine.
I actually agree with your suggestion for the most part. The cooldown seems a bit long but the idea is solid.
I also agree at the moment Gargosās design is absolutely abysmal it promotes the most braindead play. I think something definitely needs to be done, just to change the way he has to play a little. My suggestion was just something I came up with after a bit of thought, Iām not a game dev so it wonāt be the best idea but its an idea that can be built upon.
Also Iām feeling some people in this thread are too scared of getting their character nerfed and not really looking at the bigger picture. Sometimes certain nerfs are better for the game overall.
Considering Gargos is my main I suppose Iāll chime in.
At a high level, minions are far from braindead play. Any player worth his salt will effectively knock them out of play just as fast as Gargos can spawn them, or even apply pressure & keep Gargos from getting the breathing room necessary to put them in play to begin with. Most of the cast has ways to both knock them out and hit Gargos at the same time. But ultimately, if youāre giving Gargos enough time & room to set them both out you deserve to be swarmed.
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I donāt play Gargos. I just genuinely think that if Gargos is able to get two minions out with any regularity or stability to promote ābraindeadā play, then the other player effed up somewhere. Getting two minions out is not free, and if heās getting them out freely then you are not doing your job properly as his opponent.
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Itās not about being worried about Gargos getting nerfed - fact is those minions need a nerf. My point is that there are simpler, more basic ways they could go about it than affecting their functionality or imposing an artificial limit on the ability to summon them.
Specifically, there are two subtle factors that could be touched on that could yield the results we seek without grinding them into a novelty. The first is the meter gain: @KingOnimaru Iām not saying the meter fix WILL DEFINITELY fix the problem, but itās the fix that theyāre currently looking at, and it could be enough to solve the problem of the cycle without eliminating the cycle outright. Being able to eventually apply stupid pressure assisted by minions is supposed to help balance out Gargos tower of weakness with a massive strength, including being able to replenish minions to keep it up.
The second is blockstun
I think l get where youāre coming from now, though. The overuse of the term ābraindeadā implies that youāre just salty as hell. It seems to me that you just want Gargos to have more to think about, and I can dig that. Presently, his plan is to wait for minions, drop minions, and go ham. There should be a little more to it than that. Forcing him into defenselessness for 8 seconds because the opponent had the wherewithal to back off and throw a couple fireballs sounds obscene to me though.
And @Vecayse, it may sound like players are āafraid of getting their character nerfedā to you, but the flip side of that is players being upset that they canāt just play offense on autopilot against Gargos. Adaptation is the onus of the player.
As it is now, in most matchups Gargos has to straight up outplay you in order to get minions in the first place. Not all, but Iād say most.
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