A fighting game virgin's thoughts on a genre he hardly understands

General Discussion
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I’m completely new to the fighting game genre. Sure, I’ve played some friendly competitive Smash Bros., but that hardly compares to a legit fighter . Anyways, there are similarities, and it made me more interested in getting into the genre as a whole.

So, today, I download KI. Hop into the Dojo. (Hmm, combo assist on? Care to tell me what that actually is? Probably a crutch that’s going to get me killed and hard to wean myself off of, right?)

OK, basically Street Fighter input but more combo-heavy.

Woah, I did that combo entirely by accident, thereby not learning anything!

…Am I expected to do any of this within an actual match?

…Opener, Auto, Linker, Auto, Shadow Linker, Auto, Ender? (spends 15 minutes trying to successfully do this and gives up)

Questions about this experience:
-Seriously, am I expected to pull off that combo consistently? Is it really necessary (especially when it’s putting you at risk?) Why is it gating tutorials on important stuff (i.e. Instict?)

-Something about fighting games as a whole: Obviously, many moves are too fast to react to, leading to prediction, the bread and butter of the genre as I understand it. Is it just me, or does the rock-paper-scissors nature of most “prediction” mean that your “prediction” is in reality just a guess and not skill-based in the least, same as… rock, paper, scissors? Where’s the mind game in guessing one of three possible inputs when there is no inherent advantage to any of those inputs over another (referring to the combo breaker system in this case)?

EDIT: I didn’t realize what combo assist actually did. After shutting it off, things are making much more sense.

8 Likes
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Be patient, it becomes second nature, and once you get it with one character you a do it with anyone else.

Well, combo breakers are often not a guess, since you can reactionary break many elements of combos. And if you have knowledge of characters and the like, you can increase your chances of guessing right when you DO have to.

Stick with it :wink:

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I am curious. What implied that combo assist is a crutch that will get you killed? It is a perfectly viable way to play if you can’t do all the combos normally. It is fair and won’t get you killed.[quote=“Mummelpuffin, post:1, topic:18088”]
…Am I expected to do any of this within an actual match?
[/quote]

Yes[quote=“Mummelpuffin, post:1, topic:18088”]
…Opener, Auto, Linker, Auto, Shadow Linker, Auto, Ender? (spends 15 minutes trying to successfully do this and gives up)
[/quote]

Then use combo assist. It doesn’t hurt and it helps.[quote=“Mummelpuffin, post:1, topic:18088”]
-Seriously, am I expected to pull off that combo consistently? Is it really necessary (especially when it’s putting you at risk?) Why is it gating tutorials on important stuff (i.e. Instict?)
[/quote]

Combos put you at risk?[quote=“Mummelpuffin, post:1, topic:18088”]
Obviously, many moves are too fast to react to
[/quote]

False. In the combo system, all heavies and mediums are reactable with practice. It isn’t guessing. Not if you practice. There is a combo breaker training mode. Oh and they do have inherent advantages depending on the strength. Heavies do the most damage but they are slow and you can react to them and break pretty easily. Mediums are slightly faster than heavies, do less damage but are still reactable. Lights do lo damage and are not reactable. If you want to learn more, check this out. http://ki.infil.net/

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Combo breaker mode hurts my head after some minutes. When wanting to break specific shadows or check the animations for autodoubles I prefer normal training move and recording the dummy.

You can react to light autodoubles too when looking for them. In fact I use the mode “whenever they hit faster it’s lights”.
BUT then there’s manuals. But don’t worry, most players love breaking eveything. And yes, there’s also a luck factor, and everybody guessbreak sometime. I’m not buying “I can break all your manuals cxap”.

About combos in KI, it looks menacing in the way you have to change them constantly to avoid people breaking you often (don’t worry, be ready to deal with the breaks). But the system isn’t har to understand and there’s a lot of time to input your move compared to other games. However this doesn’t mean you have to put some time to get it.

I would suggest you learn your character normals and special moves (most special moves are openers and some become linkers). Know the enders. Start with basic: eg with Wulf: back-forward + P (opener), autodouble (lights, mediums or heavies), down - up HP (damage ender).
Then after the autodouble you can add the linker (all done with mediums and lights, you get heavy linkers when you leave the button pressed) and before the KV bar ends you add the ender.

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I can break light manuals on reaction if I see a light linker and then nothing else happens for a brief period.

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Yeap, because of the way manuals work. It would also tech grab attemps after dropping that combo.

But maybe I shouldn’t talk about manuals to new people =S

Anyway, manual rules:
After heavy linker manuals you can perfom: heavies, medium, lights.
After medium linkers manuals you can perfom: medium , lights
After light linkers manuals you can perform: lights.

Some take practice! so don’t worry. Other characters have easier way to do manuals (Shadow Jago for instance)

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I gotta say, although I see new players all of the time, it’s quite refreshing to see someone who is very curious and logical in their approach to asking questions and getting answers - that will serve you well.

Welcome to the FGC. :slight_smile:

If it’s alright with you, I’d like to add you so we can do a few practice sessions to help with your matchup knowledge.

If you haven’t already done so, go to ki.infil.net - it’s the best KI guide online, and arguably the best FG guide online.

4 Likes
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This 100%. New players who want to get better are always welcome in the game and on this forum.

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Nice, thanks for the offer.

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KI system is overwhelming at first but when you train a little, go sleep and come back a day later, it will become less scary, until you pass the hump and find it logical like jigsaw puzzles.

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Hey, welcome to KI, @Mummelpuffin! Hope you enjoy your experience. :slight_smile: My dad was in his 60’s before he touched his first video game. New Super Mario Bros on the Wii. I told him what the buttons were, and he slowly walked forward and fell in the first hole. The “F this” look on his face, well, we’ve all been there.

What I’m trying to say is don’t expect to get everything all at once. Even if you get frustrated, keep working at it, because I promise you, it gets easier, and everything starts falling in to place.

To start off, I’d personally recommend that more or less train yourself to get a feeling for the timing of moves and combos. It’s like learning how to feather the accelerator and brake the right way in a racing game or how to shoot with pinpoint precision in an FPS. There’s a rhythm, and once you’re able to hone in on that rhythm and it becomes second nature, EVERYTHING else after that opens up in front of you.

That might sound like vague garbage, but really, what I’m trying to say is just practice doing a basic combo until it feels more natural and not like you’re tying your fingers in knots.

Sure, there are things that require better timing, more skill, an in depth knowledge of your chosen character’s move set, strengths, weaknesses, combo traits, instinct, systems within systems etc. No question. But the nice part about this game is that it’s rather easy to learn how to string moves together in to combos for any character since they all obey the combo format: Opener-auto-linker-auto-ender. Or if you’d prefer: Special move, button, special move, button, heavy special move.

Don’t expect to keep everything straight for all of the characters or even one character right away. It’s an easy game to start out in and do some flashy stuff in, especially if you turn on combo assist, but it has a ton of depth under the surface, so just start small and build out a bit like we all did at one point.

If you need help or advice, there are plenty of good people around here willing to help, including me. You have any questions, feel free to PM me. I’m not insanely skilled, but I’ve been playing since launch, so I could probably help you with the basics.

Either way, good luck, man!

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Hahaha! Believe me, you aren’t alone. That is EXACTLY how I started, except I never had combo-assist. I won’t lie, it took some time before I finally “got good”. Really, it takes a lot of patience and overcoming the trials in the Dojo. Most people will probably degrade that purpose of Jago being the only dojo character, while it certainly may be a budget issue, learning Jago establishes good fundamentals all-around.

It’ll all be confusing when you see something like,

Opener > Auto/Manual Double > Shadow/Normal Linker > Ender

But, I much rather look at it this way,

Stick Movement + Button / Command Attack > Button > Stick Movement + Button > Stick Movement + HP+HK button

Also give this KI Guide a try, it might answer some questions if you’re willing to understand the combo mechanics. The Complete Killer Instinct Guide

Yes, you are expected to pull off combo’s consistently (not the one you seen in the last Dojo lesson though - they are more stylish than practical). Unless you understand mechanics so much that you intentionally reset your combo. The importance of combos is essentially to deal damage or for resources. Sure, you can easily just push buttons, they hit and you do some damage like SF would. However, to maximize your damage you need to end combos and do a damage ender. Resource enders essentially give the player resources like meter, chunks, time, more combo opportunities, etc.

Guess breaking, as hated as it can be is a life saver. As you start off your journey in KI, you will gradually learn doubles or linkers as you try to naturally break them or just guess. As you progress in understanding the mechanics you will visually notice that Heavies are slower, Mediums are average and Lights are fast. You can only physically react to both Mediums and Heavies, as lights require either guessing or anticipation, otherwise it is just to fast for our brains to process during the motion and input of the animation.

Yes and No. Combo-Assist allows the player to quickly adapt to the mechanics of the game with simple inputs. It helps newcomers, handicapable, and veterans alike. I myself use it for Ultras. Don’t worry about being mocked, that’s just people for you. Use it, if it makes you feel comfortable, but remember that it is still important to understand the mechanics if you wish to get better.

Oh, forgot. :confetti_ball: Welcome to the community! :confetti_ball:

I’m Tiger, or you can call me by my slave name if you’d like. You will usually see me around spouting non-sense or my opinion on random threads.

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**First… I want to apologize for what I’m about to ask… because it’s a little off-topic. **
Anyways, I am new to these forums. I decided to re-visit KI due to the fact it is this month’s GWG on Xbox One. I just have a really quick question and then I shall disappear… somewhere.
It seems literally every achievement I’ve gotten in this game says it is rare. That makes no sense to me as long as this game has been out… so what’s the deal? Again, I apologize for asking here but I’m learning my way around this forum. Thanks…

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Glad to see you back breaking people down "per sentence"
Were you been bro, what happened to you>

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Make you feel all fuzzy inside.

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Believe it or not, a majority of these achievements aren’t as old as the game because the monthly character release during Season 2 and slightly into Season 3. Moreover, they require a little but of time to unlock. Like the survival or the mastery of characters. Usually the colors aren’t that rare.

Season 1 achievements for the most part aren’t rare. Then again, Xbox as a whole is still working on what classifies as a Rare achievement.

Hope that helped.

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Thank you. I’ll go back to disappearing now. :slight_smile:

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im sorry but “friendly competitive” lol

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Also combo assist makes it so your combos do auto linkers, so you only really have to do 2 quarter circle motions in one combo. It is NOT a crutch no matter popular belief. It merely makes it easier to do combos, and you can still manually put linkers in, so no its not a crutch. But some things are harder to do with combo assist, for instance juggling is the only thing.

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Combo assist for new players makes the game as black and white as Opener…press different buttons that are different strengths… ender. Its pretty simple when you get used to it