No, not really. Fulgore was not especially difficult prior to having to actually care about his meter. His tools aren’t very complex and he had no exploitable weakness because his access to meter was still plentiful. Even with the nerfs he still has great neutral control, unreactable 50/50 okizeme, strong pressure, good normals, and rock solid defense. IMO fulgore is the most well-rounded character in the game–he can fight comfortably at any distance, in basically any scenario.
shrug
It’s still possible to build meter while zoning in instinct. You can use pip cancels to create zoning patterns that give you opportunities to pip charge. You can also get 2-3 pips from a combo depending on the ender you use, and fulgore can go from fullscreen to pressuring easily with free fireball > teleport cancel. It’s less exciting than what he had before but it’s not like he flat out can’t use it.
If going for hard knockdown enders and manually charging pips is how we’re supposed to use his instinct then they’d be better off ditching the whole reactor thing and just reverting him back to how his meter worked in season 1…
That’s a massively reductive reading of what Climax posted. I think part of the problem is your trying to reduce a very complex and nuanced instinct into 2-3 rather simple points, namely “pop instinct, get meter” and “pop instinct, find easiest way to pip charge”.
fulgore is still a ■■■■■■■■■■■■ and always will be. his instinct has fallen off for sure, he has other flaws as well that i dont care to mention since its been discussed. however, as @STORM179 says we have to work with what we’re given and adapt/overcome. if thats gonna happen, complaint dept is closed ■■■■■■■.
im not the best fulgore player by any stretch, im held back by my execution, lack of seat time due to RL responsibilities, but i dont let that or his weaknesses get in the way of my confidence in fulgore. you cannot work around his flaws if youre fighting yourself, fighting your views of fulgores current state and fighting your opponent. you cant win or grow that way at all.
MBABanemobius, what’s so nuanced about his instinct? It doesn’t let him do anything he couldn’t already do if he had meter for it, other than pip charge, which he could do at any time in s1.
R1stormrider, first of all, I don’t know how you could say he, or any character for that matter, will always be good, you literally have no idea what changes will be made each patch. Did anyone have any idea that spinal was going to be completely redesigned after season 2? Anyway, I’m glad you still like the character, but there’s no way to grow when each patch takes away from what you could do. To use your own analogy of growth, if progress is like a plant growing, each one of these patches is like the gardner coming by and trimming a piece off. The 3.7 patch was a huge piece in my opinion. How much growth can you make when you keep getting trimmed down? From the opinions of people who don’t play the character, I fully expect him to be nerfed again in 3.8.
Actually pruning is a healthy practice among gardeners.
Honestly, I do understand your plight as a Sadira main. Since S1 I’ve seen my character nerfed to the ground and back again. They buff this… they nerf that… It does make it difficult to master tech when she keeps changing, BUT this is the reality of any fighting game, especially when you are dealing with a character that is generally hard to balance.
I’ve always felt that S1 Fulgore was the best version of Fulgore. He wasn’t brain dead in any way shape or form and you had to manually charge him to get meter. Fulgore was initially designed around the fact that when he had meter was a over powered and a monster, just like Spinal is with skulls. Later changes made him overtly too strong.
I personally think Fulgore is still good. I find fighting him isn’t as nauseating as it was before 3.6 where he was getting tons of meter and zoning me to death.
As I’ve mentioned before, if IG sees Fulgore falling down into the Sadira tier, I’m sure they’ll buff something.
Yeah he can arguably do everything outside of instinct, but not for free and therefore so rapidly like he can in instinct. He also arguably can’t do those things outside of instinct as pips are so costly, so things like triple fireballs aren’t as viable.
I get that, but the thing that’s backwards about it is that by the time you get instinct, your opponent most likely has meter available to use the tools to get around triple fireball. Granted, there are a few exceptions to this, and I can still keep them out. On the flip side though, there are characters (usually characters with a slide) who can meterlessly bypass triple fireballs whenever they want. As I’ve stated many times, I’d rather have meter than free pip cancelling. It’s just not very good.
In all honesty, if the other s3 changes hadn’t been made prior to this, I’m not sure I’d be as upset with it. The two key things IG did prior to 3.7 was to heavily nerf projectile damage and to dramatically increase the spin reduction for using a teleport. When Fulgore still had his old instinct this wasn’t so bad, as you had meter for extra projectiles and you could always get your spin speed maxed again when you activated instinct. Now that he gets no increase in spin speed, he rarely has the meter to make spending multiple pips on zoning worth it, keeping the raw zoning damage low. Further, using teleports pretty much guarantees that you’ll never have meter for anything else later in the game.
I’ve said it before, their balancing looks super sloppy. If they truly wanted to go this direction with him they should’ve really experimented prior to the launch of s3 and made him a redesign (again) like they did with Spinal and Maya. I feel like they’re still in the “let’s throw ■■■■ at the wall and see what sticks” phase of balancing him, and nothing feels right.
you know how i say hes still good? because he is. hes still top 5 easy, even after all these balance changes. you wont always win, you’re gonna lose…because everyone loses. gotta deal with that, like i said if you’re fighting yourself and the opponent you gonna have to swim up stream. seems to me like you are, and youre quite tired. just let it go and try someone else because with that pessimistic attitude you’re already throwing in the towel.
is fulgore flawed? yes. is he still strong? yes. will the road be tough to keep doing what you were before? most definitely. adapt and overcome, ive run into really tough fulgore players on ranked that still bring it. they dont post here at all, which is a shame. there could be so much information being shared to help combat his new gaps in his play but seems people on this subforum care more about cosmetics and other things not pertaining to match ups, tech, etc.
this is why i love the hisako and mira sub forums. now that has a wealth of information and it pays dividends to the users of those particular fighters.
Until you, you know, use the teleport to actually open up your opponent and hit them
Fulgore’s meter build is nowhere near as “guaranteed” as it used to be. But still, if you aren’t building pips man, that’s really on you. Spin speed increases pretty fast if you want to focus on it…you just can’t go nuts with teleports and zoning (but to be clear, you can absolutely use both sparingly while still steadily building meter). If Fulgore never has meter, then it’s because you are choosing to not go in or to make the most of your openings.
EDIT: again, I’m not saying you have to like or agree with Fulgore’s changes. You don’t, and I suggested several threads ago that you should really try out one of those non-meter starved characters you keep talking about. But a lot of the things you’re saying in this and other threads simply aren’t true man…
hit up a fulgore player name indiria. he’s the sickest fulgore ever! I’m good with meter cause I tripple auto and bring it. use your charged blade dash and makem think twice. fulgore Dosent do crazy shhhizit like rash but he can confirm and hit to plasma bolt and then break the rules of the combo system. I think u need to reevaluate what he can do.
How can he break the combo system rules? After plasma bolt all fulgore can do to confirm is a manual or pip-cancel into laser or blade dash, after that he goes straight to the combo system
I still don’t get this. Why would you want meter if not for the pip canceling? Shadow fireball is pointless, shadow laser is pointless, shadow blade dash’s only advantage over regular blade dash is the projectile invincibility and Fulgore has other ways past zoning that don’t waste a bar. Plus he can just outzone anyone trying to zone him. Shadow teleport is an invincible reversal but he already has a meterless invincible reversal, and shadow dp offers no advantage over regular dp. Fulgore isn’t like other characters who have a shadow that’s integral to their game plan or anything. Pip canceling is his best use of meter.
I think he’s made it pretty clear that he wants to be able to shadow counter more often.
(And, also, the buffs he gets to movement at 4/8/10 pips, plus the threat of hype beam, are so strong as to duff a bunch of characters by themselves imo)
online play is pretty forgiving about what u can pull off. try a hit confirm into bolt, heavy CR p into heavy standing kick, heavy lazer to teleport into what ever.
I agree, and I also think that is the main reason why Fulgore’s instinct was eventually changed. Fulgore’s pip cancels are strong, but the free pair of ice skates even for getting blown up while his instinct was active was just hell to deal with. Pip cancel pressure is powerful and annoying, but Fulgore with high amounts of meter is just ridiculous in neutral. Him getting to that point without having to actively manage his meter was very, very strong, and to a certain extent rewarded even bad play.
I don’t disagree at all that Gore’s instinct isn’t super scary now or decidedly not in the running for best instincts in the game, but I actually think the shift was a good way to enforce thoughtful play onto a character who largely got to do whatever he wanted. I still think S1 Gore was the best Gore, but I do like the fact that they managed to reintroduce the concept of intentionality to his meter and pressure games.
Yeah, I definitely think so too. The mobility alone is strong enough, but hype beam on top of that is a disgustingly strong tool. Poor kan-ra/gargos lol.
I think what myself and other Fulgore players worry about isn’t so much if he’s going to get buffed, but rather if he’ll end up getting nerfed further since some people really hate him and claim that he’s top 5 so that justifies damage reduction, further spin speed punishes etc.
there’s a fulgore ultimate bug where if you ultra into ultra/ultimate he will free roam and do his normal outro animation. so if I’m kicking ■■■ with full stacks I dump all three hype beams. lol.
